My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

[di30]

Hi folks
I did post a post the other day but unable to find it lol, no worries as I know there's been upgrades to the new fab site.

My son purchased a used 2nd hand car by HP in June with 3 months free warranty.

It wasnt cheap either, but he had 3 unfortunate breakdowns and its found to be the same recurring problem (Master cylinder on clutch).

As you know we live in Wales, he broken down in London the other day, and the RAC ended up taking it to the nearest garage, my son broken down on a Red Route road, but there was naff all he could do about it, he did however have 2 passengers with him as well and he had to fork out £75 for them all to get home last minute on the mega-bus! "Ouch"

And of course he had to fork out again for fuel to get down there to collect his car from the garage yesterday!

Warranty approved of the work, but said my son firstly has to pay the amount of whatever the job comes to, then when they receive a copy of the invoice they will refund the amount back to him (surely this should not have been the case)? say if my son never had the money to pay in the first place??

Now he called in to see the dealer yesterday to tell him about the recurring problem and all the dealer said was basically there was nothing he could do unless it happens again.
But the point here is the warranty is being used up on the same part all the time, so the mechanic in London also gave the invoice yesterday that says this:

Clutch Master Cylinder (replaced) £56.75
Clutch Fluid. £4.50
Labour: £105.00
total = £199.50.

Advisory:
Clutch pedal feels quite stiff, and heavy, possible fault with clutch or bearing, or clutch fork, needs further investigation.


So the above was done, but still needs further investigation, my son shown the invoice and the dealer just said "I cant do anything unless it happens again"
That is not right and I know there are rights on this!!

Now my son left it in a local garage to have it checked in the morning and is now using another car lent out to him where he has has to fill with diesel again! (More expense)!
He has a job where it includes being "on call" so needs his car!

Last night I was checking the OFT site about buying a used car "rights etc"

The car when he purchased it last month was advertised as "Excellent Condition" Mechanically sound, all the good stuff basically!
Now to break down 3 times in a month for the same problem is absolutely stupid!

What are your thoughts please folks? and how would I go about getting his our or pocket expenses back to him? (I assume the dealer as they set it up, but he's not much cop)! and I really don't think he knows Consumers have rights! I would like to slap some paperwork in front of him!

Cheers again.

[SXGuy]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Im no expert, but if the clutch is covered by the warrenty then the dealer is wrong to say theres nothing he can do, it should be fixed straight away as its under warrenty.

The second thing is having to pay for the repairs before getting the money back, im assuming that was because RAC took him to a garage other than the dealership. I know if its an insurance job then they usually invoice the insurance company, how it works with warrenty issues outside the dealship i dont know, but im guessing this was unavoidable as it wasnt taken to the dealership.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Found this here, I did find rather interesting........

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/rep...08/oft1241.pdf

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Thanks SXGuy ;-)

The reason why the RAC taken it to that particular garage was because it was under the RAC warranty where they deal with them there too.

Was reading some interesting facts on the above link on my above post about the same recurring problems where it should not touch the warranty, as he only had the car for only a month. So been reading on my son's rights.

I think my son may be on to something here........hopefully lol.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Hi Hun,
I can't access the link above...but I found this which is quite informative although it may be similar to what you found:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0003-1011.txt

Elsa x

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Ooh thank you Elsa, your a star ;-) xx

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

My opinion fwiw, difficult to be 100% accurate but basing the following on the initial post

The clutch is never going to be covered on a used car warranty, (remote possibility if there is a manufacturing defect - check the coverage) but 99 times out of 100 the clutch is worn out - so be very careful before authorising the removal of the gearbox to inspect it, you could get hit with a large invoice.

If the clutch is heavy this could cause undue wear on the master cylinder

The warranty is not being used up on the same part - the master cylinder is now covered by the parts warranty on the item for 1 year by the garage that fitted it.

On a used car the price paid for the vehicle is for it's age and condition, defects and wear can be apparent (if you want a new car warranty buy a new car !). However the vehicle must be fit for purpose, and the advertising of the product must be accurate. If selling garage won't entertain the clutch being heavy as an issue then seek advice from local trading standards, and possibly pay for independent report on the vehicle to support your argument.

As a last resort I believe you could get the finance company involved, although I have heard of it a few times that really isn't my area so seek more advice on that.

The reason why the RAC taken it to that particular garage was because it was under the RAC warranty where they deal with them there too.

If the garage deals with RAC warranty then they should invoice the warranty company direct, not take money off the customer.

One thing: the garage lent him a car, why did he have to fill it ? surely he would just have to replace the fuel he used for his own journey (which he would have used anyway)

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Hi folks
Thank you all for your interesting and helpful comments.

Right at this current time my son's car is still in and the dealer gave in to get the car fully looked at, although it will still come down to the same category of the clutch.
Once its done then we are going for the request of the reimbursements of out of cost expenses, fuel etc and the inconvenience it all caused.

The garage where my son is borrowing a car is not a courtesy car as such, but he did not have to pay to borrow it, but is putitng fuel in and then getting it all back once his car issues are dealt with. The garage is not attached to the dealer, as its 3 or 4 miles away, but they do have joint business dealings, like if customers have warranty then cars are dealt with by the relevant named garage as such that one where my son has left his car to be dealt with.

We have kept all receipts of everything extra spent etc, travelling, fuel and so...

I have made contact with Trading Standards who said that my son does have a very good case, so we keeping them informed and if any probs, then they will be dealing with the matter.

I did not know the exact cost of the car before, but I do know now that he paid not far off £8Grand and with his old car trading in as well.

We do have a copy of the advert on docs as well.

All your comments are very helpful, I shall be referring back to them as well if needs be, thank you all x

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

The garage where my son is borrowing a car is not a courtesy car as such, but he did not have to pay to borrow it,

Does not compute........

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

In other words they lent him a car out of courtesy, whatever fuel he uses it will be refunded, yeah I know it doesnt make sense, but we are on to it, he needs a car due to his job being on call :-)

[Bricktop]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

They will refund any fuel he uses ?

That is really good of them to be fair.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

That's what they did say, so yes that is fair, if they do this, see what happens........;-)

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Right this was just briefly over the phone to my son.

It could actually be the "Flywheel" yep so a costly job!!

The garage who has his car rang over to the dealer today and "yep" he's coincidentally off, well that was what the co-worker had told the guy over the garage.
If I get the chance, I shall take a little peep in myself when passing by as the dealer garage doesnt close until 8pm.

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Some interesting info on "The OFT" Buying used car rights.......(Posted on one of my above posts)

Examples of Breaches of Professional Diligence: (Page 12)
Systematically failing to carry out the
pre-sale checks that you would
reasonably be expected to undertake in
relation to the mechanical condition,
history, and mileage of a vehicle before
you advertise, market or sell it.
• Obstructing consumers who have
bought vehicles of unsatisfactory quality
from you and are trying to exercise their
contractual rights to redress under the
SoGA – for example if you refuse to
listen to complaints or wrongly tell
consumers that they have no right to
redress (such as to reject the vehicle or
have it repaired or replaced by you).
• Failing to deal with complaints at all or
in an honest, fair, reasonable and
professional manner.

Page 18


Warranties/Guarantees

5.30 The key elements of a warranty or
guarantee should be clearly drawn to
the attention of consumers prior to sale.
This includes, for example:
• details of what is covered and what is
not covered
• claim limits
• conditions that need to be followed for
the warranty/guarantee to remain valid
• the geographical scope of the
warranty/guarantee
• the claims procedure.
5.31 Any relevant document published by
the warranty/guarantee provider should
also be handed over to the consumer.
The consumer should be advised of what
type of warranty/guarantee is being
provided, for example, manufacturer’s,
free extended manufacturer’s/dealer’s,
insurance backed or dealer’s own
warranty/guarantee. The consumer
should be informed of the identity of the
warranty/guarantee provider and the
address to which claims may be directed.
The different types of warranty/guarantee
and any significant differences between
them should be explained to consumers
as appropriate.
5.32 You should also give advice to
consumers about who they should
address a claim to if they have a
problem regarding defective parts
and accessories not covered by the
warranty or guarantee.

After-sales service

Complaints and enquiries

5.33 You should have an accessible,
appropriate and user friendly after-sales
procedure to ensure that all consumer
enquiries are dealt with in an honest, fair,
professional and reasonable manner.
5.34 You should have an effective customer
complaints procedure, understood and
followed by all staff who may come into
contact with the public. We recommend
that you have a written complaints
procedure.
5.35 You should deal with complaints promptly,
effectively and in a professional manner.
5.36 You should make your best efforts to find
a satisfactory solution to complaints. You
need to ensure that the steps you take to
satisfy the consumer are in accordance
with reasonable expectations.
5.37 You should record all complaints and
note the final outcome. You should keep
complaint records.
5.38 You should cooperate with any appropriate
representative or intermediary, for
example a Trading Standards Service or
Citizens Advice Bureau, consulted by a
consumer in respect of a complaint.

Warranties

5.39 You should ensure that warranty work
is carried out promptly and that your
estimated timescale for completion
is made clear to the consumer before
any work has commenced. You should
keep the consumer informed if it is
subsequently discovered that the work
has to take longer, for example, because
further problems have been

Contractual obligations

5.40 You should follow practices and
procedures that ensure that you fulfil your
contractual commitments to consumers,
for example:
• By providing appropriate redress to
consumers who are seeking to enforce
their contractual rights against you
under the SoGA where vehicles are
of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for their
purpose or not as you described them.
• Carrying out repairs to consumers’
faulty vehicles with reasonable care
and skill and within a reasonable
time (or within the specific time
agreed) in accordance with your legal
obligations under the Supply of Goods
and Services Act 1982 (consumers in
Scotland enjoy similar rights under the
common law).

Aggressive practices

5.41 You must not intimidate, pressurise
or coerce consumers, for example
through the use of threatening or
abusive language, or threatening to take
action which cannot legally be taken,
into dropping complaints against your
business. Any aggressive practice that
is likely to cause an average consumer
to take a different decision is prohibited
under the CPRs (see para 4.7).

[di30]

Re: My son's consumer rights buying used car/recurring problems

Some interesting info on "The OFT" Buying used car rights.......(Posted on one of my above posts)

Examples of Breaches of Professional Diligence: (Page 12)
Systematically failing to carry out the
pre-sale checks that you would
reasonably be expected to undertake in
relation to the mechanical condition,
history, and mileage of a vehicle before
you advertise, market or sell it.
• Obstructing consumers who have
bought vehicles of unsatisfactory quality
from you and are trying to exercise their
contractual rights to redress under the
SoGA – for example if you refuse to
listen to complaints or wrongly tell
consumers that they have no right to
redress (such as to reject the vehicle or
have it repaired or replaced by you).
• Failing to deal with complaints at all or
in an honest, fair, reasonable and
professional manner.

Page 18


Warranties/Guarantees

5.30 The key elements of a warranty or
guarantee should be clearly drawn to
the attention of consumers prior to sale.
This includes, for example:
• details of what is covered and what is
not covered
• claim limits
• conditions that need to be followed for
the warranty/guarantee to remain valid
• the geographical scope of the
warranty/guarantee
• the claims procedure.
5.31 Any relevant document published by
the warranty/guarantee provider should
also be handed over to the consumer.
The consumer should be advised of what
type of warranty/guarantee is being
provided, for example, manufacturer’s,
free extended manufacturer’s/dealer’s,
insurance backed or dealer’s own
warranty/guarantee. The consumer
should be informed of the identity of the
warranty/guarantee provider and the
address to which claims may be directed.
The different types of warranty/guarantee
and any significant differences between
them should be explained to consumers
as appropriate.
5.32 You should also give advice to
consumers about who they should
address a claim to if they have a
problem regarding defective parts
and accessories not covered by the
warranty or guarantee.

After-sales service

Complaints and enquiries

5.33 You should have an accessible,
appropriate and user friendly after-sales
procedure to ensure that all consumer
enquiries are dealt with in an honest, fair,
professional and reasonable manner.
5.34 You should have an effective customer
complaints procedure, understood and
followed by all staff who may come into
contact with the public. We recommend
that you have a written complaints
procedure.
5.35 You should deal with complaints promptly,
effectively and in a professional manner.
5.36 You should make your best efforts to find
a satisfactory solution to complaints. You
need to ensure that the steps you take to
satisfy the consumer are in accordance
with reasonable expectations.
5.37 You should record all complaints and
note the final outcome. You should keep
complaint records.
5.38 You should cooperate with any appropriate
representative or intermediary, for
example a Trading Standards Service or
Citizens Advice Bureau, consulted by a
consumer in respect of a complaint.

Warranties

5.39 You should ensure that warranty work
is carried out promptly and that your
estimated timescale for completion
is made clear to the consumer before
any work has commenced. You should
keep the consumer informed if it is
subsequently discovered that the work
has to take longer, for example, because
further problems have been

Contractual obligations

5.40 You should follow practices and
procedures that ensure that you fulfil your
contractual commitments to consumers,
for example:
• By providing appropriate redress to
consumers who are seeking to enforce
their contractual rights against you
under the SoGA where vehicles are
of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for their
purpose or not as you described them.
• Carrying out repairs to consumers’
faulty vehicles with reasonable care
and skill and within a reasonable
time (or within the specific time
agreed) in accordance with your legal
obligations under the Supply of Goods
and Services Act 1982 (consumers in
Scotland enjoy similar rights under the
common law).

Aggressive practices

5.41 You must not intimidate, pressurise
or coerce consumers, for example
through the use of threatening or
abusive language, or threatening to take
action which cannot legally be taken,
into dropping complaints against your
business. Any aggressive practice that
is likely to cause an average consumer
to take a different decision is prohibited
under the CPRs (see para 4.7).