DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

[NWMazda]

Wondering if anyone can advise on my situation which has changed dramatically in the past few days. I have posted this on another forum but was advised by a few people to give it a go here also, maybe even to get a rough guess on whether the CCA might be unenforceable. I shall try to keep this as short as possible but include as much fact as possible.

In the mid 90s, my ex wife and I ran up some debt, we were young and silly and got ourselves into trouble. It was mainly a bank loan, overdraft and car finance. So, when the bank saw our outgoings they suggested we took a consolidation loan to take everything into one lower payment. This was Barclays and that consolidation loan would have been around 1998 and was taken out jointly by myself and the ex.

We still managed to screw it up and eventually the loan was defaulted and sold to a DCA. Now in one strange way or another, this was not addressed until 2005 when the DCA began requesting payments. They were actually very good with me and on a balance of just over 20k, allowed me to pay £28 per month. I've paid that for 5yrs and never missed a payment. I am older now and wiser and trying to fix my circumstances etc.

In those five years, my ex has not paid a penny to this and has no intention of and I'm pretty sure the DCA has given up trying so the balance now is still around £18,700.

Last month, due to a couple of reasons (girlfriend recovering from cancer and maybe needs time off work, I need to pay for work things now and again and claim expenses back), I applied for a credit card and was successful. This was also an attempt at trying to rebuild my ratings.

So, the DCA must do random checks and has spotted that I have a credit card and they've written to me and rang my phone off the wall until I've contacted them. Essentially, this credit card means they now want to protect their debt and this is now going to get pushed much harder. Wish I'd never applied for the stupid thing now.

So, I've given them my income/expenditure and they know the situation is far from awesome. I had to call them today to discuss what they were planning.

They've said today that unless I change my payment from £28pm to £312pm, they will take out a CCJ against me and take a charge against the house

They basically admitted they know there is no way I can make those payments, they just want the charge against the house.

They've got me stressed up to the eyeballs now and my girlfriend is panicking because she doesn't want anything against the house. From quite happily paying them for five years, it's just suddenly blown up and the DCA are just being absolute pigs about it.

I am requesting the CCA tomorrow, hopefully this might throw a lifeline my way but I'm not counting on it. I am also doing the write only letter and having no further calls with them.

It rips me apart from they don't give a stuff about the joint debtor because they can just hammer me for it. I had read somewhere that I could take my ex partner to court for half the payments, it's a thought.

Oh, they offered me a discount off the 18,700 to clear it, down to 16,000. Pathetic discount offer which I naturally declined.

I spoke to my family and could raise 7k to clear this and I offered them that but they said whilst they could get a charge against our house, they'd not be interested in 7k to clear.

Any advice would be really appreciated. I have a free appointment with a solicitor tomorrow but I can't count on them being heavily clued up in this area.

EDIT: Just looked at a balance on this account and the original date of agreement was 07/09/1999.

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

I wonder if someone could confirm something in the CCA template please also?

The line says, "I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconsitituded copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine"

Word is flagging that word up as not existing, is it supposed to say reconstituted? Does this mean they can just recreate one rather than sending a true copy? I'm confused as to what reconsitituded is asking for and don't want them to be able to dismiss my request based on it as a loophole or something.

Many thanks.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

EDIT: Just looked at a balance on this account and the original date of agreement was 07/09/1999.

Hiya,

Ok, lots to take in and lots of errors on your behalf, none moreso than talking to the DCA - sod the fact you took a card, speaking to the DCA was your downfall. Ok, you need to get the CCA Request sent asap - so long as this remains outstanding they cannot take any formal action against you. Also, they will not get a ccj or a charge - not until they comply with your CCA Request.

So get that sent asap and then email me it when it arrives - we'll beat them. Oh, one final point -CEASE ALL REPAYMENTS TO THEM - DO NOT PAY ANOTHER PENNY AND DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE!

You MUST listen to me, stop speaking to them - if they ring then hang up. Do not even pass security with them ok? From your credit file, what was the default date? I presume it is over 3 years old for you to get accepted for a card...

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

I wonder if someone could confirm something in the CCA template please also?

The line says, "I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconsitituded copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine"

Word is flagging that word up as not existing, is it supposed to say reconstituted? Does this mean they can just recreate one rather than sending a true copy? I'm confused as to what reconsitituded is asking for and don't want them to be able to dismiss my request based on it as a loophole or something.

Many thanks.

It is a typo - yes, it is a reconstituted copy - i.e. a copy using segments of text. It is legal - as explained here: ---> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/sho ... stcount=43

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Hiya, many thanks for your reply.

I don't actually know what the default date was on the original loan, it is definitely over three years ago though, more like ten years ago, I know it was passed to the Barclays recovery unit in 2000.

Original loan was 15k, outstanding balance is £18,700!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

If the default is that old then it will be gone from your credit record..... so we need to push for CCA - send the request, stop paying and post back when they respond....

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Essentially, they have set the monthly payment out of my reach purposefully. They have set the settlement figure out of my reach purposefully. All they want is the CCJ and the charge against the house. Seems bizarre that they can get a CCJ against someone who has never missed a payment.

If I get the CCA and it is endorseable, can they just go ahead and get a CCJ and charge and there is nothing I can do about it? Even then, I guess they can just start asking for crazy monthly payments?

Are they going to start sending bailliffs round?

I'm kinda worried that to stop paying them means they'd send bailiffs round even with the CCA request in place.

I'm getting untold amounts of stress from my girlfriend over this

[Susie]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Slow down!! IF (and its less likely considering the age of the debt) they come up with an enforcable CCA then Niddy will help you through things. Its more than likely that if it went to court and if they won the judge would set the payments at a sensible level that you can pay/ A lot of ifs before that can happen though!!

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

My girlfriend just won't allow a charge against this house. She bought it before we were together and she had to work really hard to get it and she doesn't want to lose it because of a mistake I made years ago. If the CCA is enforceable, we just can't let that charge go ahead. I just find 16k as a settlement absolutely outrageous when they probably only paid a few grand for the debt.

It seems if the CCA is for real, our only choice is charge against the house or find 16k to pay them off!

Thanks for your replies on this one, I'll keep you informed of any progress!!

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Slow down!!

Hi NWMazda

Sorry to hear that this nasty bunch are putting this pressure on you.

Which is why I agree wholeheartedly with the above advice - SLOW DOWN!

They are deliberately trying pressure tactics to get this exact response, because when you are rushed and hurried and stressed you make mistakes.

Do not under any circumstances speak to these people on the phone again. Alwaysdeal in writing. If they call you, theres no need to stoop to their level, just politely inform them that for your own security you do not divulge personal information over the phone, and that all communication should be in writing.

If they continue to call there is a harrassment template you can send them to stop this from happening.

Once you start getting things in writing, then you gain back an element of control and also slow things down. They don't like this because they lose the only leverage they have over you - harrassment and pressure.

[size=5]Ifit went to court, then the fact you have never missed a payment in 5 years should work in your favour. There is also case law (Mercantile Credit Company v Ellis 1987 ) that for a Charging Order to be granted a previous judgement must first be defaulted on and you could use this in your defence.

They cannot start sending bailliffs round either unless a CCJ jas been defaulted on and applied to the court to do this.

Get the CCA request sent off (recorded delivery and DO NOT SIGN) and take things one step at a time. I know its really difficult not to stress but this is exactly what they want to do.

You're not going to give them that satisfaction are you? k

Best

SnV

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Many thanks for that reply. I will try to slow down and breathe a bit easier on this one! You're right in saying that the tactics they are using are working but it's nice to know there are rules and regulations out there that the DCAs don't expect us to know anything about.

I will definitely do the CCA tomorrow and see what comes back from that. Can they not just cobble together a dodgy copy and send that back to make it look legit if the original is unenforceable?

I'd imagine from experience, they probably have a rough idea whether a Barclays CCA from 1999 would be good or bad?

Does anyone here have a rough guess whether it would be good or bad from that lender at that time? I wouldn't count on the guess as right or wrong, just curious as to whether history and experience states it could be either way.

Thanks all again for help, it's really appreciated that there are people out there who put there own time into helping others in this way

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Many thanks for that reply. I will try to slow down and breathe a bit easier on this one! You're right in saying that the tactics they are using are working but it's nice to know there are rules and regulations out there that the DCAs don't expect us to know anything about

No problem at all. The problem is that until you join forums like this (and others) you just are not aware of the rights you have and how to deal with this people. Now you can share and realise that the tactics are the same across the entire DCA industry.

If you slow things down then this puts you in a stronger position, as you can get advice. Why do you think they want you to call them all the time? k

I will definitely do the CCA tomorrow and see what comes back from that. Can they not just cobble together a dodgy copy and send that back to make it look legit if the original is unenforceable?

Yes they can certainly try. But Never-In-Doubt (and others on this forum) is an expert on CCA's and will be able to advise you better on the steps you can take if this happens.

I'd imagine from experience, they probably have a rough idea whether a Barclays CCA from 1999 would be good or bad?

Does anyone here have a rough guess whether it would be good or bad from that lender at that time? I wouldn't count on the guess as right or wrong, just curious as to whether history and experience states it could be either way.

Some are better than others. Its likely though that they don't even have a copy but you won't know until you send that request. You are legally entitled to ask for it. Thats why there is a process and a fee!

Try not to worry about the unknowns at the moment, they sap your energy and its not going to help you. Just try to deal in plain facts and what you know and take things one step at a time.

Best

SnV

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Right time for a few choice Niddy words of wisdom (i.e. a mini-bollocking). ;Spank

Stop being so bloody silly - nobody can just go and put a charge on your GIRLFRIENDS house when the debt in question aint hers! Obviously if you're on the mortgage then that is different, but there are 100 if's and but's before even considering a charge - have you even bothered to read the forum before rushing into your long winded stressful posts?

I am not one to sit there and weep over people, I tend to say it as it is - sorry but grow some balls and stand up to this - the way you're acting you'd think you murdered someone - i.e. you are reacting the EXACT way the DCA want you to - next thing you'll agree to anything and then they'll have you wrapped round their little finger and they will start to dictate to you - however you have me here and I like to beat DCA's for fun, so calm down and read the forums - start with this - ENTIRELY relevant to you: ---> viewtopic.php?p=2318#p2318

Now that should show you the way I respond when the lender hits you with unlawful threats! So calm down and do as we tell you - so stop payments and send the CCA request off and stop speaking to them on the phone.

Barclays agreements from the date in question were short application forms and therefore you'll find they will send you terms and conditions and, if you're lucky, an application form - you never had an agreement, nobody did from that time! So yea, you want to beat the fookers - then trust me and i'll beat them for you!

But calm the hell down - perlease!

As for the mortgage please confirm if you have been added to the thing or whether it is solely in the GF name.....

Cheers


Niddy

[NWMazda]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Cheers for that, I shall chill back and take this one step at a time! I'm finding it very hard to persuade my girlfriend that this isn't going to turn very sour which is making me more stressed!

Unfortunately I am on the mortgage which is why this is extra worrying. Can they prove this?

I've printed out the CCA request and it's going off at lunchtime, fingers crossed for an interesting reply!

I've spent a couple of nights now reading forums and I shall continue to do so. I must admit I'm feeling a little more realxed now knowing help is at hand. It's the feeling of being out of your depth which adds to the whole tension and as you say, this works perfectly in their favour.

Many thanks for the rollocking (honestly) and many thanks for your support and assistance

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: DCA Heavy Handed Tactics

Unfortunately I am on the mortgage which is why this is extra worrying. Can they prove this?

If you are a joint mortgage holder then yes they will know this but stop worrying about this. Infact if you have a joint mortgage a CO means diddly squat most of the time anyway (have a read of the attachment I've added).

Please stop worrying about this right now. As has already been said there are sooooo many hoops they would have to jump through to get to this stage, and it would still be a case of if they are successful because you would defend. Its not something that is automatically 'awarded' though of course they like to give that impression.

I've printed out the CCA request and it's going off at lunchtime, fingers crossed for an interesting reply!

Excellent! Remember to send it via recorded delivery, and more importantly DO NOT SIGN IT.

Keep a copy for your records and staple the recorded delivery receipt to it in the event you need ot later (make sure you do this as in the very unlikely event this went to court it would be evidence for you).

So once the letter is sent, sit back and breathe a little easier and wait for the response

Best

SnV