mr affable's UE diary

[mr affable]

Can anyone advise me?

Have been paying nominal payments of £1 to my 6 creditors (total owed approx £36,500. across credit cards, personal loans and store card - largest single amount is £14,000. smallest is £850) for past 4 years. They write to me every 6/12 months and ask for an update when I confirm that I have no assets and little/no surplus income over expenditure each month.

I had assumed that one of them would have made me bankrupt by now but no one has. I had been intending to make myself bankrupt once I had the fees available which hopefully I soon will have.

However a family member has now offered to raise a lump sum if this would be accepted in full and final settlement. It strikes me that my creditors might be prepared to accept a lump sum (even if small in relation to what I owe) on the basis that the alternative is bankruptcy when they are likely to get even less and most of what I can pay (if anything) will go towards payment of the Official Receivers fees first.

Am I being naive or is this a possible option?

[Pixie]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Hi and welcome to AAD.

You could offer full and final settlements but you might not need to do that.

Given that you've been paying token payments for 4 years, your agreements must be pre 2007.

Have you considered unenforceability? It seems complicated at first but it isn't. We'll help you, especially Niddy (Never-In-Doubt) the forum owner and unenforceability guru.

To see if your debts are UE (unenforceable) could you please list them as shown here:

• Type of account (credit card/loan)
  
  
• Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance
  
  
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
  
  
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
  
  
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)

Use a different post for each debt as it makes commenting on them easier.


If you want to know more about unenforceability, read UPDATED - A Full Guide to Unenforceability - allaboutFORUMS

[Pixie]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

BTW like many other users on here, I was seriously considering bankruptcy and trying to raise the fees when I came across Niddy and UE. I haven't looked back since!

[BBoo]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Mr Affable,

Four and a half years ago I was advised by CAB to stop all payments to non-priority debts (most were already stopped) and wait for someone to make me bankrupt as there was no way I could raise the fees.

4-5 years later I have still not paid one penny to any of my creditors. I have had three threats of bankruptcy, written saying yes please (not what they expect) and they have backed off and refused to do it.

Sure, I have one of the biggest libraries of DCA letters in the country, but I am not bankrupt, I'm not refusing to pay, I simply can't.

Your first move, whatever you decide, should be to stop paying ALL non priority debts. Make sure the important bills are covered and if you're behind with those, put the money saved towards catching up on those debts. Beyond this do not pay any non-priority creditor a penny.

If you go bankrupt, at least you've a little more money; if you don't and follow the UE route, you'll have to stop paying anyway, and you may just find you can offload a lot of this debt and reach F&F's with the rest.

My feeling is try the UE route first. If it doesn't work, keep not paying and wait. Do not acknowledge a single letter, phone call or anything. You may just find 6 years passes and they all become Statute Barred.

Good luck!

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Thanks for your quick reply Pixie - its good to hear a friendly helpful voice!

So here goes with first one:

MINT

• Type of account (credit card)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date but was before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £13,883 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (lender)

5/3/12 CCA request sent
25/3/12 having checked on Royal Mail tracking website - status of recorded delivery item still says 'being progressed through our network for delivery'. In the circumstances I will start again with this one by sending CCA request again.
26/3/12 CCA request sent again.
26/3/12 Reply received from Mint (they obviously did get my original letter!). They are asking me to sign and return my CCA request before they can do anything. I have sent to Niddy for his comments.
27/3/12 template reply sent on niddys advice
19/4/12 reply received from Mint asking for my signature again before they will provide any further information
23/4/12 Final response letter sent as they have failed to provide me with copy of CCA
16/5/12 tick box reply received from Mint saying they cant do anything as they have not received the required fee (I had previously enclosed this twice before but they sent it back saying they couldnt do anything as they didnt have my signature!)
13/8/12 - letter recd from Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd on behalf of Mint
4/13 - debt now being dealt with by Fredrickson - who are asking for £1 to request a copy of original agreement

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

second one:

CAPITAL ONE

• Type of account (credit card)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date but was before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £4,134 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (lender)

5/3/12 CCA request sent
22/3/12 copy cca received from Cap One - copied by email to Niddy
24/3/12 Niddy says unenforceable! - Will send 'missing prescribed terms' letter as suggested by Niddy
26/3/12 missing PTs letter sent
13/4/12 reply received from Cap One - copied by email to Niddy
18/4/12 Niddy says its a standard reply and nothing to worry about.
26/6/12 letter recd from Wescot saying they are now dealing. In dispute letter sent.
19/7/12 Wescot replied saying they have spoken to Capital One and confirmed the amount is due.
26/8/12 letter recd from Nelson Guest Solicitors acting on behalf of Wescot asking for repyt proposals or further recovery activity will be undertaken.
6/9/12 Notice of doorstep collection recd from Wescot. Harassment template letter sent
12/12/12 Letter recd from Lowell Portfolio I Ltd saying they have now purchased the debt from Capital One.

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

third one:

HALIFAX

• Type of account (credit card)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date - was in 2007 but think this one was after April 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £11,899 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (debt collection agency - Blair, Oliver & Scott)

5/3/12 CCA request sent
14/3/12 Copy of CCA received from Halifax
14/3/12 emailed copy of CCA to NIddy
14/3/12 Niddy says enforceable - not a good start but will remain positive regarding the others as this was the one which was taken out after April 2007.

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

fourth one:

NORTHERN ROCK

• Type of account (personal loan)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date but was before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £1,102 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (lender)

5/3/12 CCA Request sent
19/6/12 copy CCA recd - sent to Niddy for his comments
20/6/12 Niddy - says enforceable

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

fifth one:

SANTANDER (FORMERLY A&L)

• Type of account (personal loan)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date but was before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £4,028 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (debt collection agency - Rockwell)

5/3/12 CCA request sent
1/5/13 Letter from Moorcroft saying they are now dealing with the debt

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

sixth one:

WAITROSE

• Type of account (store card)
  
  
• Date commenced (not sure of exact date but was before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance - £792 (interest has been frozen since Feb 2008)
  
  
• Date last paid (started making nominal £1 payments per month on advice of CCCS from Feb 2008)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying (continuing to pay £1 per month in absence of any more funds to pay)
  
  
• Status (default)
  
  
• Account owner (lender)

5/3/12 CCA request sent
23/4/12 reply recd - emailed to Niddy for his comments
26/4/12 Niddy says unenforceable - unenforceable letter to be sent
21/5/12 reply recd - emailed to Niddy for his comments
27/7/12 - Final Demand received from Waitrose
5/13 - letter recd saying debt has now been transferred to Buchanan Clark & Wells

[Pixie]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

The good news is that these are likely to be UE.

Do you want to try the UE route rather than bankruptcy or F&F settlements?

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Absolutely - what do I need to do?

[Deepie]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Absolutely - what do I need to do?

Here's the link.....>....CCA Request send that off with a £ 1 postal order

[Pixie]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

First of all, as BBoo said, stop making any payments. Your credit history is already trashed so it doesn't matter.

Then send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Request to each of your creditors, signing digitally (there's a link at the bottom of the template to explain what that means), and enclosing a £1 PO for each.

Send the letters recorded delivery and, when you get anything back, email it to Niddy and then date it and staple it to the envelope it came in.

Don't worry, we're here to answer any questions you might have. Have a look at UE - One year on - allaboutFORUMS to see how UE has helped members.

I'll move this into a UE diary.

[mr affable]

Re: lump sum offer or bankruptcy?

Thanks for all that - what I cant quite understand is that I assume I must have signed application forms of some sort when I applied for the credit cards/loans or am I missing the point?