Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

[Streetwise]

Hi to all,I am executor of my late partners estate she had two rental properties she rented out with a friend.

For the past two years i have been fighting the bank to stop them selling these properties i have offered to pay them back over a 15 year period but they have refused this offer.

The loan payments are up to date and have never been defaulted on.

They are now going to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Any ideas on how to stop this.

All help appreciated.

Thanks in advance Streetwise.

[garlok]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Yes Streetwise, appoint a good probate lawyer toute suite and follow their advice. Being an executor of an estate is an onerous responsibility with draconian sanctions for those that don't get it right. I believe that unless the property is now solely in your name it is perfectly possible for the bank to force a sale. The loans must have been joint to prevent it I think. I am the executor of a particularly complex estate jointly with the person'a solicitor which also has a shared Trust with a previous wife and her daughters involved, HMRC implications as certainly yours will. Not only do I have the "comfort" of a joint qualified executor I have also instructed my own solicitors to represent me in this when the inevitable occurs. It really is NOT worth the risk if you do not know exactly what you are doing.

regards
G

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I am executor of my late partners estate she had two rental properties she rented out with a friend.

For the past two years i have been fighting the bank to stop them selling these properties i have offered to pay them back over a 15 year period but they have refused this offer.

The loan payments are up to date and have never been defaulted on.

They are now going to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I fear the lender is quite within their rights to appoint a LPA Receiver since these mortgages are Buy-to-Let (not residential so no county court possession proceedings required) and therefore they are not regulated by the FSA. But that doesn't mean they have to appoint a receiver.

Although I'm surprised that they will not agree to letting you pay them off, I expect this is because a deceased person cannot lawfully hold a mortgage. If they had been joint mortgages then the lender would have removed your late partner from the mortgages and providing your financial situation was stable the mortgages would carry on in your sole name. You say that your late partner was renting them out with a friend, what was their legal involvement, was the friend named on the mortgages? If so that would change things.

Most lenders would be willing to offer new Buy-To-Let mortgages to you (subject to status and financial screening) on these properties, but could this be a *closed book lender* i.e. a lender who no longer lends such as GMAC, Northern Rock, Mortgage Express etc. Plenty of BTL lenders went under during the Credit Crunch and were bought out by US and Swiss firms which operate now as ghost lenders. Their only interest is getting back their investment not running a mortgage book. Who is the lender?

Most importantly who now owns the properties? Did your late partner's will specify state who should inherit them? Is there any equity in the properties which your late partner was entitled to bequeath to the person of her choice? If the properties have been left to you then I would think you will have some legal leverage when it comes to hanging on to them if they have equity. Has probate been granted yet?

I agree with Garlok that DIY probate is a false economy. You need a solicitor on this one. If probate hasn't been granted you could ask the lender to wait until all the legal paperwork is complete before they seize these properties. Of course that request would come better from a lawyer on headed notepaper.

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Streetwise, are these BLT properties connected to the thread which you started in January 2012 on the same topic? In that thread you referred to the mortgage as being a *commercial* loan, and there was the added complication of a possible forged signature by the bank. If so I'll read through that previous thread again to see whether what I've said in post #3 on this thread is still relevant or whether you need a different approach:

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...rtner-and-debt

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I've found another thread which you started in March 2012 where you refer to your late partner taking out a bank loan secured to two properties. This loan was in joint names with a friend of your late partner. Is that the same BLT issue as the one on this thread?

In that thread you say the properties were left to yourself and your two boys which makes the picture clearer. So the big question mark is what has happened to the *friend* who was (and presumably still is) joint owner of the debt which looks like a Lloyds *commercial* loan not a normal BLT mortgage? I would think she/he is still liable for these mortgages.


http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post216188

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Good heavens, I see you've been battling this problem since your partner died in 2010. Does that mean probate has already been granted because it doesn't normally take three years? Perhaps the bank are threatening you with the LPA because of the amount of time it's taking to sort this out?

Here's your thread on LB started in March 2011 which I'll also read for more background information:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...662#post203662

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Good heavens, I see you've been battling this problem since your partner died in 2010. Does that mean probate has already been granted because it doesn't normally take three years? Perhaps the bank are threatening you with the LPA because of the amount of time it's taking to sort this out?

Here's your thread on LB started in March 2011 which I'll also read for more background information:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...662#post203662

Hi Plan B,Bank in question is R.B.S.,they have no paperwork for this loan,its a commercial loan was NOT taken out as B.T.L.

The properties are still in my late partners name and her business partners.

Her share of the properties were left to me and our children.

Need to understand if the bank can just circumvent the court .

I want them to take us to court so as a judge can sort this out.

Offered to pay them off over 15 year period,offer declined NO default on loan still paying it.

Any help appreciated.

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Bank in question is R.B.S.,they have no paperwork for this loan,its a commercial loan was NOT taken out as B.T.L.

The properties are still in my late partners name and her business partners.

Need to understand if the bank can just circumvent the court .

I want them to take us to court so as a judge can sort this out.

Offered to pay them off over 15 year period,offer declined NO default on loan still paying it.

I'm struggling to follow the logic of this so I expect it's more complicated than it appears at first sight. If it was a joint loan and one of the parties to that loan is still alive, and the payments are up-to-date then why on earth would the bank want to take it into receivership? As long as they are getting the contractual payments what's their problem? As long as money laundering isn't involved they shouldn't care two hoots where the repayments are coming from.

However I do recall you said in another thread that one of the terms of the loan was that on the death of any party, the loan would be invalidated (something like that). This may well be the case written into the Ts & Cs so you need to ask a solicitor because this is a commercial loan which is outside of my area of knowledge. In fact I don't think it's wise for you to take any advice from anyone on any forum on this legal complexity unless they are a qualified lawyer.

Could the bank's aggressive stance have anything to do with the fact that you've accused them of forging a signature on the contract?

Inviting the bank to take you to court is a high risk strategy. Do they need to take you to court since they seem to hold the belief that they can appoint a receiver? You need to see a solicitor asap because once a receiver is appointed it's almost impossible to get the property back. A receiver is *appointed* not *instructed* by a bank to take over the ownership of a property and do with it what the receiver thinks is best. From the moment the receiver is appointed the property doesn't belong to either the debtor or the bank. It effectively belongs to the OR.

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Okay,I need to ask this question.

How can a receiver be appointed if the bank don't have the paperwork to say they can appoint a receiver.

If a receiver took the job on without the legal paperwork would he be personally liable for any loss to the estate.

How are the bank able to circumvent the Courts.

Why do they not have to get a court order.

Its our name thats on the deeds not the banks.

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

In this link you will see that the bank has the right to take a property into receivership if "the mortgagor breaches a provision contained within the LPA or mortgage deed, other than the commitment to make repayments". In other words if the deal was the mortgage would be invalidated on the death of a party to the contract than it seems the creditor has the right to appoint a receiver despite the fact that the payments are up to date.

http://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/receivership

The receiver's role is that of an asset manager for the bank. Unlike a court dealing with a residential repossession and all the associated personal and emotional issues, the receiver will have no interest in your personal circumstances.

Having said all that it's not unheard of for the receiver to sell the bank's *asset* back to the borrower if they (the borrower) can obtain alternative finance. Can you raise a BLT mortgage on these properties?

The question you never answer (and I've asked it on all your previous threads!) is what has happened to the co-owner of these properties, because she/he still has a financial interest in them which includes a share of the equity? Why don't you ever say what is going on with this business partner? I doubt you can make any legal decisions without their involvement. In fact it's unusual for a bank to speak to someone who is not party to the mortgage such as yourself without a third party authorization.

Could this be why they will not accept your *offer* to pay them back over 15 years? Surely the co-owner of the properties and joint owner of the loan would have to be involved in any of that sort of thing? Perhaps the bank isn't being unhelpful, it's just carrying out due diligence which could prevent it entering into a financial/legal deal which is secured on a property where the *offeror* is not the sole owner.

I don't know what you mean when you say the bank don't have the paperwork to say they can appoint a receiver, but a qualified housing solicitor would, so go and see one

[garlok]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Thank you for input planB but Streetwise this is a COMPLEX issue which falls under the Common Law of Contract from what you have said. YOU are NOT, from the information you have given. a party to any contract with the Bank. THIS NOT SIMPLE CONSUMER LAW>. planB is absolutely correct you should NOT be taking advice from anyone on an internet forum. There are all sorts of complications revolving around this, was the loan secured on buy to let? are you the beneficiary of the will you are executing (not quite so exacting as it used to be),? are there any reasons to believe that that there may be joint tenancy, tenancy in common or any Trust involvement at all with the "friend"? have you made any declaration to HMRC yet concerning inheritance tax with any property involvement in an estate they will want to know and you are already two years down the line you said?

YOU NEED TO GO AND SEE A SOLICITOR WELL VERSED IN THE LAWS AND PROCEDURES PROBATE. Be assured that the few hundred quid it will cost will be money well spent. It is conceivable you will lose the lot and face bills with the fees and charges made upon the estate by the banks proceeding against you in this way. For once they are not in my opinion disobeying the law, merely pushing it along a bit. They are clear they are not going to wait 15 years for their cash from a deceased's estate end of.

Sorry but there it is.

regards
G

[garlok]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I hasten to add that if this gets down a court case in Contract Law as it seems to be from the information given, that any barrister who is any good at this sort of stuff will be looking at fees to plead in the High Court well into 5 figures. Can you NOT afford to go see a specialist?

regards
G

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Thank you for input planB.

Any time Garlok

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Streetwise, what is the current situation with your FOS complaint on this issue which you referred to in your post # 69 in another thread?

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post283418

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Streetwise, what is the current situation with your FOS complaint on this issue which you referred to in your post # 69 in another thread?

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post283418

Still waiting to here from the F.O.S. they are currently looking into it.

Re post( 8 )I never said ( Death of any party ),the agreement I have states ( Death of customer ).Singular,One partner to the alleged agreement is still very much alive.

Re post ( 10 ) The co owner is happy for me to deal with this,any correspondence he gets from the bank they get a reply from ( US ),under the banner Streetwise and the Executor of the Estate of the late xxxxxxxx.

Nearly all correspondence that I receive is copied to the preferred solicitor of this site or his partner with the view to engaging.

I will ask again can they just circumvent the Courts without any paperwork for this loan.