Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

The facts.

My partner died in October 2010.

November 2010 i wrote to all of her creditors to tell them she had passed away and i was applying for probate.

The creditors wrote back saying please get back in touch when probate is granted.

March 2011 probate is granted.

April 2011 i write to the bank to tell them probate is granted,i give them the account numbers.

May 2011 the bank write back saying they can not locate an account for my partner with these account numbers.

May 2011 i write back to the bank explaining these are the correct account numbers and she is party to a loan that she received from them with her business partner.

July 2011 the bank write back telling me that the account had been transferred out of her name and solely into her business partners on the 1st of January 2011.

July 2011 i write to the bank advising them that the family home that myself and two boys live in is a security against the loan she had taken out with her business partner.

September 2011 The relationship manager arranged a meeting with myself and my wifes business partner,he asked for my wifes will which he took and copied returning it to me 3 days later with a copy of the loan agreement,i check the agreement i have on file and they don't match ask him on the phone where he got it from as it doesn't match mine,he say's will be back in touch within 7 days.

September 2011 Letter from back proposing a settlement they want me personally to pay a substantial amount towards the loan( six figures),not acceptable, letter sent of return post telling them this.

October 2011 Letter to bank still awaiting a reply to where you got the loan agreement from,please get in touch or will have to get in touch with head office.

December 2011 Letter to Stephen Hester could you please look into this matter as I am getting nowhere.

December 2011 Reply from Stephen Hester's office we cannot find a loan agreement for this loan.

January 2012 Letter to relationship manager who gave me the loan agreement,head office say's there is no loan agreement that they can find on file,can you tell me where you got your agreement from.

February 2012 Letter from relationship manager telling me he will get in touch with head office and show them the agreement he has.

February 2012 Letter to relationship manager please send me a copy of the loan agreement.

March 2012 Letter from relationship manager,enclosed a copy of the agreement he gave me but stamped and signed as an original copy of the agreement.

April 2012 Letter to Stephen Hester's office can you please tell me if this is a copy of the actual loan agreement.

April 2012 Letter from Stephen Hester's office this would be a copy of the agreement that we were using at the time the loan was taken out but it has some typographical errors.

August 2012 Letter from bank formal demand.


August 2012 Letter from me offering to pay of the loan over 15 years,offer declined.

August 2012 Letter to bank asking why a formal demand had been issued as the account had never been defaulted.

September 2012 Letter from bank formal demand issued for ( Death of Partner ).

October 2012 Letter to bank,informing them that in my agreement it says a default occurs on ( Death of customer ),and one customer is still alive.

November 2012 Letter from bank formal demand issued as we are not happy about the way the account is being run.

November 2012 Letter to bank telling them nothing has changed with the way the account is being run no defaults no arrears,also informing them I am now complaining to the F.O.S.

November 2012 Business partner sends S.A.R to bank.

December 2012 Business partner receives S.A.R from bank,no loan agreement.

January 2013 Letter from banks collection department asking for proposals for settlement,14 days to respond.

February 2013 Letter to bank referring them to my offer in August 2012.

June 2013 Letter from bank declining offer,asking for more proposals.

June 2013 Letter to bank referring them again to my letter of August 2012,offer declined.

August 2013 Letter from bank advising they are going to appoint L.P.A. receivers.


Regards Streetwise

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Sorry the last post did not all print,

[SXGuy]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

You can click the edit button and continue to finish where you left off.

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I've emailed Andrew.

I am afraid they are not able to help,will try someone else.

[garlok]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I have just googled "probate solicitors in London" (as your location is London) and there are pages of them. Most reputable solicitors will give you a 30 minute consultation to outline your problems basically for free, you pay from then on. If London solicitors are too expensive I will ask around for you for recommendations on probate amongst people I know, however there will be a geographical distance like to the Midlands or the North around the Manchester Liverpool area to be overcome as Andrew is unable to help.

regards
G

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

May 2011 the bank write back saying they can not locate an account for my partner with these account numbers.

May 2011 i write back to the bank explaining these are the correct account numbers and she is party to a loan that she received from them with her business partner.

July 2011 the bank write back telling me that the account had been transferred out of her name and solely into her business partners on the 1st of January 2011.

July 2011 i write to the bank advising them that the family home that myself and two boys live in is a security against the loan she had taken out with her business partner.

I'll wait to read the rest of your log of events before taking a view, but so far things are looking more optimistic for you and your sons.

It seems that the bank has released your family home as security for that loan which was used to buy the two investment properties. You can check with Land Registry online to see if the bank still has a charge on your home here: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/publi...erty-ownership. The bank may have left it on by mistake (lazy solicitors) or they may have left it on if you still owed the bank money on an overdraft etc. Some charges will say "all monies owed now and in future". If its still there and it shouldn't be, you can ask the bank to remove it (best and quickest option), or you can ask Land Registry direct to remove it if you can provide them with the evidence. Here's how to do this for *mortgages* but it's the same process for secured loans: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/publi...#guide-mark-15. Check with a solicitor but it appears that at least the family home is safe from the bank.

If this was the case then the two flats were probably offered as alternative security for the loan which seems to have been renegotiated with the bank by your late wife's business partner in January 2011. It's odd that the bank did this without the involvement of your late wife's executor since the flats were not solely owned by the business partner and probate hadn't been granted at that stage. This is something to check with a solicitor. You need to discover the details of the ownership distribution (was it 50/50?) of those two flats from Day 1 and if that changed later. I doubt the bank would have "renegotiated" the joint loan into a sole loan if your late wife's name was to remain on the deeds. Check out both flats on Land Registry online.

The lawyer will need to know the up-to-date situation regarding payments towards this loan since January 2011 (when it was renegotiated into the business partner's sole name) and all payments received such as rent. Who paid what to whom? Did the business partner pay the bank loan each month having collected the rent? Or did you run the show in order to make sure that your late wife's asset was protected? This could be one reason why the bank is willing to communicate with you when you're not party to the loan. The properties could in effect be your assets too if your late wife's name was on the deeds, but that will depend on the contents of her Will.

This leaves the mystery of why the bank want to take these properties into receivership if there's no default on the repayments. You say you've offered to take over the loan and pay it off over 15 years. You say the bank want it paid off in 10 years. I see room to manoeuvre and do a deal without the need to be confrontational or go to court. This deal would involve your late wife's partner's agreement, which from what you say could be achievable since they appear disinterested. The business partner may want you to buy her out of her share of the equity (depending on the 50/50 ownership issue), but that could be balanced with what payments (if any) you have made towards the loan.

Remember to take a calculator with you when you see the lawyer because this is definitely a maths' problem as well as a legal one! The more information you can get together before talking to the solicitor, the easier and therefore cheaper it will be.

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I am afraid they are not able to help,will try someone else.

Have you approached Paul if Andrew is unable to take on any more work at the moment?

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

I have just googled "probate solicitors in London" (as your location is London) and there are pages of them. Most reputable solicitors will give you a 30 minute consultation to outline your problems basically for free, you pay from then on. If London solicitors are too expensive I will ask around for you for recommendations on probate amongst people I know, however there will be a geographical distance like to the Midlands or the North around the Manchester Liverpool area to be overcome as Andrew is unable to help.

Does streetwise still need a probate solicitor since probate was granted in March 2011? Perhaps he needs a solicitor who understands banks and contract law which may be more relevant to his current problem now that we know a bit more about the situation. Most competent solicitors can read a Will and understand his late wife's intentions if that is still the issue (it seems not).

My concern is how the bank has conducted itself throughout. This seems to be streetwise's worry too. For example when the business partner "renegotiated" the loan was it increased to release equity from the properties or did it remain at the same level

[PlanB]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Hi Plan B,Bank in question is R.B.S.,they have no paperwork for this loan,its a commercial loan was NOT taken out as B.T.L.

The properties are still in my late partners name and her business partners.

^^^^ How can this be if the loan was "renegotiated" into the business partner's sole name in January 2011? A bank will not accept security for a loan if it has another person's name on the deeds without their written consent (independent legal advice etc). Since your late wife had already passed away at that point that would not have been possible.

I smell a rat. And that rat has RBS written all over it

Which is the document you allege the bank forged?

[MrsD]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

must say I was smelling the same big rat, were you consulted over this "renegotiation" and did you sign anything then?

I don't understand how they could renegotiate anything without your permission?

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

must say I was smelling the same big rat, were you consulted over this "renegotiation" and did you sign anything then?

I don't understand how they could renegotiate anything without your permission?

Log now finished post 31.

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

must say I was smelling the same big rat, were you consulted over this "renegotiation" and did you sign anything then?

I don't understand how they could renegotiate anything without your permission?

Was never told the loan was transferred in to his name only,and i have never been asked to sign anything.

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

^^^^ How can this be if the loan was "renegotiated" into the business partner's sole name in January 2011? A bank will not accept security for a loan if it has another person's name on the deeds without their written consent (independent legal advice etc). Since your late wife had already passed away at that point that would not have been possible.

I smell a rat. And that rat has RBS written all over it

Which is the document you allege the bank forged?

As far as I know the properties are still in her name and the Business partner.The security was put in place at the start of the loan ( Does this make a difference ).I believe that the loan agreement has been tampered with.

[garlok]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Does streetwise still need a probate solicitor since probate was granted in March 2011? Perhaps he needs a solicitor who understands banks and contract law which may be more relevant to his current problem now that we know a bit more about the situation. Most competent solicitors can read a Will and understand his late wife's intentions if that is still the issue (it seems not).

My concern is how the bank has conducted itself throughout. This seems to be streetwise's worry too. For example when the business partner "renegotiated" the loan was it increased to release equity from the properties or did it remain at the same level

I see where you are coming from planB. However from what I see here are two main thrusts of problems, one is the execution of the will, the granting of probate on a very tenuous basis as the liabilities of the estate have not been discharged correctly and the "commercial" loan was secured on the deceased's home, the tenure of which we know nothing about. On the most simple basis it would be jointly owned 50/50 between spouses and the surviving spouse takes all based on however the ownership was set up. If this was not the cae then you have to sort out the "Joint Tenancy", "Tenancy in Common" issue because the OP has stated that the Will actually leaves a percentage split of ownership 40/30/30 of the residue of the estate. His words. Then we go back to the "business" as he refers to of the property which is defined as two flats being rented out. This derives income on some shared arrangement and the basis of that business has not been established by the executor in my view and any liabilities of that business to be born by the deceased's estate have clearly not been discharged in a competent way. hence this very thread and discussion. The bank clearly think not.As i said was this business a legitimate business or was some informal arrangement, it is highly unlikely that any bank would loan a significant sum of money (which is going to take the OP 15 years to pay off on his own admission here and sadly already to the pursuing bank) without some pretty sound security. Another issue as the OP seems to have little knowledge of his wife's affairs is the issue of personal guarantees. Do the bank have any at all from the alleged partners in this "business". In the current climate I would think that something of the type exists hence the bank's confident pursuit. these cannot be extinguished and will always be a liability on the estate until the debt has been paid in full or unless the bank make a big procedural error, and hence my concern that probate has been granted maybe on a false premise. That is without any of the other implications of the tenancy agreement with the occupiers of the flats in question. This man needs to get very urgent professional legal advice. It is clear that Consumer Law has no bearing whatsoever on these issues it is more serious for the OP as he has already claimed openly that this is a "commercial" loan as do the bank and a debt on the deceased's estate which he has freely admitted.

This is a real mess which needs full blown professional support like NOW.

regards
G

[Streetwise]

Re: Bank threatening to appoint L.P.A. receivers.

Does streetwise still need a probate solicitor since probate was granted in March 2011? Perhaps he needs a solicitor who understands banks and contract law which may be more relevant to his current problem now that we know a bit more about the situation. Most competent solicitors can read a Will and understand his late wife's intentions if that is still the issue (it seems not).

My concern is how the bank has conducted itself throughout. This seems to be streetwise's worry too. For example when the business partner "renegotiated" the loan was it increased to release equity from the properties or did it remain at the same level

I was thinking that it was a Litigation Solicitor that I needed.

I don't think the loan was renegotiated it was just transferred in to his sole name as my partner had died.

The loan was not increased.