Prescribed terms

[Batfink]

Hi all

First of all, I want to thank you all for your invaluable help and assistance to those of us struggling to work through our situations, even those of us who are usually lurkers. Reading your stories and the advice you're given really really helps.

My husband and I have a few creditors to whom we have been paying reduced figures for the past couple of years. One of them was a credit card which was originally linked to our Northern Rock Together mortgage (started in 2002) but was finally taken on by Cooperative Bank. They were absolutely fine with our reduced payment and never bothered us at all by letter or phone until a couple of weeks ago. We originally asked for a copy of our credit agreement from them when we requested our CCAs from our other creditors a couple of years ago but have never really looked at it properly as everything was going fine.

As they've now started to get funny with us (got a message left today saying "this is the 3rd and final message from the pre legal team... blah blah blah") I've looked at the CCA they sent us but am unsure whether it's actually enforceable or not. It doesn't appear to have any details about interest or credit limit etc... is this what is referred to as "prescribed terms"? If this info isn't on does that make it unenforceable or is there more to it than that? I am not planning on stopping paying, just want to make sure they can't take us to court or something.

Sorry for the long post, thank you ever so much for reading.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Prescribed terms

I've looked at the CCA they sent us but am unsure whether it's actually enforceable or not.

Email it to :niddy

If this info isn't on does that make it unenforceable or is there more to it than that?

Was it taken out before April 6 2007?

I am not planning on stopping paying, just want to make sure they can't take us to court or something.

They can take you to court whenever they feel like it whether you're paying or not. Whether they will or not is another matter. Are all these silly threats being made by telephone? If so, they're just trying to frighten you and you mustn't let them.

What UE does is give you a valid defence. If the agreement is unenforceable I definitely would stop paying them as it is the only way you can run the limitation clock down and gain some degree of closure on the situation.

Sorry for the long post, thank you ever so much for reading.

If you think that's a long post you've obviously never seen one of mine. I'm in training for the Olympic boredom contest.

SH

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Prescribed terms

hi Batfink,
Yet again they shoot themselves in the foot by getting greedy and pushy with someone who is happily paying a reduced amount. No wonder people get fed up and come on here for help!

As Scabhunter says, let Niddy have a look at the agreement. You need to send him a totally unedited scan, and include your user name in the subject line and a link to this thread in the message.
Note it on this thread when you've sent it.

More about prescribed terms and how to submit your agreement here:

UPDATED - A Full Guide to Unenforceability - allaboutFORUMS

Shep x

[Batfink]

Re: Prescribed terms

Thank you all for your replies. Just got home from work to find a letter from them (sent RD but postman just put through door lol) saying that we're deliberately trying to avoid them and if they don't hear from us they will pass the account for immediate recovery action.

Account was started in 2002 and they have only been contacting us by telephone this last week or two (I have my landline on silent and just check messages and calls every so often.)

Just emailed Niddy with the CCA. Thank you again

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Prescribed terms

No PT's so this is unenforceable plus you ticked for ppi thus s.18 comes into play, ie two sets of prescribed terms should be issued - one for the card and one for the ppi element or at least inclusion of both elements!

I'd not worry too much about this one and respond with missing PT's....

[Batfink]

Re: Prescribed terms

Thank you so much for looking at this, Niddy. I wondered whether I should request a CCA again (as I first asked for this one two years ago) to open the lines of communication or whether I should go straight for the missing PTs letter? I feel a bit funny about responding to a CCA received 2 years ago! lol

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Prescribed terms

Well are they hassling you or are you just tidying up? If no contact then leave it be.

If a new dca has written send off missing PT's. It's fine

[Batfink]

Re: Prescribed terms

They're telephoning and have sent a letter today by recorded delivery. I think I definitely need to contact them, it's just whether I ask for a CCA again or send the missing PTs letter. At the moment it's still the original lender (Cooperative) doing the contacting.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Prescribed terms

it's just whether I ask for a CCA again

Why would you want to do that when you've already got one which is perfectly good enough for your purposes?

send the missing PTs letter

That's what I would do.

SH

[MrsD]

Re: Prescribed terms

if you've sent the CCA two years ago and they haven't responded, then I would send the missing prescribed terms as Niddy suggests, no point starting again.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Prescribed terms

OK. Here's what I think you need to do, and I'll try to explain why -

1) Stop paying immediately
2) Send the Missing Prescribed Terms template by recorded post immediately

From your point of view, there is no point in making further payments into this account. Some people keep paying even when accounts are unenforceable just because they think it will reduce harassment. It won't. No matter how much you give them, they want more. And as you've already capitulated by giving them money, they will see you as the ideal victim to milk for more.

You are already being harassed by telephone, and now you've received a recorded delivery letter. They were behaving reasonably, and now they are not. The harassment will not stop if you continue with the present arrangement, so why do that?

Also, ceasing to pay starts the six year limitation clock which is the ultimate target you need to reach. It is the only point at which you can hope to get some form of closure on the situation, and if you keep paying it just gets pushed ever further into the future, like chasing rainbows.

Sending for another CCA cannot possibly achieve anything from your point of view. One of two things could happen. They could send another one exactly the same as the one you already have, which would leave you in exactly the same position. Or, they could get “creative” and send you something which is enforceable. What then?

Banks don't normally communicate using recorded mail. This suggests that they are at least considering legal action in the future, because they are trying to establish proof that you have received the demands for money. As of now, you have received the CCA, but have not made them aware that you are disputing its validity. Indeed, continuing to pay the account without protest could be construed as tacit compliance and acceptance of the validity of the agreement. You need to change that by making them aware of the fact that there are no prescribed terms on the paper and that it is therefore unenforceable. Use a recorded method of post as you don't want to give them the opportunity to deny receiving the letter at a later date.

Oh, and I would stick a Harassment by Telephone template in with the Missing PTs one as well. They have started to fight with the gloves off, so they may as well be told where they stand right from the start.

SH

[Deepie]

Re: Prescribed terms

^^^^^^^I couldn't have put it better myself........

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Prescribed terms

Are you paying this

I missed that

[Batfink]

Re: Prescribed terms

Well... when you put it like that.... lol

Ok will prepare a letter tonight and get it sent off Recorded Delivery tomorrow. I really appreciate the time you are all putting into this and will update as soon as I hear further.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Prescribed terms

Here are the templates -

Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | CCA Query - Missing Prescribed Terms

Our Templates | Harassment & Intimidation Templates | Harassment by Telephone

@Niddy or site admin - By the way, every time I go to a different section of the site where the templates are, I get asked to accept cookies again. Should that be happening?

SH