To F&F or not to F&F

[LippyKid]

Newbie here, I've taken the time to read a couple of threads on here mainly the guides re F&F, as I possibly maybe in a position this year to settle some of my debts but obviously if I can reduce the costs of doing so then all well and good.
However after researching as said its seems it is a complete minefield.
So can anyone advise.
Firstly is it advisable to leave secured debt and only concentrate on unsecured?
If its not with a DCA already is it best to let it go until it does and then attempt to do a F&F after?
The advise to do it via a third party does this have to be an individual or can it be a company cheque for example?
The templates for the letters seem a tad cavalier in its lanaguage is this right wouldn't it carry more weight if it had a more professional tone? (no offence to the author just purely thinking of effectiveness)
And lastly one of the guides actually suggested to not even consider F&F whatsoever as the default disappears after 6 years just play brinkmanship until then but surely the debt is still repayable until its repaid as everyone would do that wouldn't they?..or am I missing something??

Many Thanks in advance

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Hiya

Ok, hard to determine what your situation is with so little details but to answer your questions presuming you wanted to go UE then;

1. You cannot go UE with secured debts, that'd be a bit mad so yes, stick to unsecured debts from before April 2007. If you want to make offers then you will struggle to get acceptance on secure debts anyway;
2. Yes if it is unsecured and you want to make an offer and don't mind a default being registered then you get better deals by waiting till its sold on, naturally;
3. Send it yourself using cheque or portal order. It'll be fine;
4. The templates work a dream, I am the author and they have worked wonders and are NOT designed for people that just want to make an offer but for those that have had shit for years and now want to settle by an offer.

* You'll not win many friends being new and coming out with such statements, hence the lack of responses to your question!

5. You need to read a wee bit more - you've misread it totally.

[SXGuy]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

And lastly one of the guides actually suggested to not even consider F&F whatsoever as the default disappears after 6 years just play brinkmanship until then but surely the debt is still repayable until its repaid as everyone would do that wouldn't they?..or am I missing something??

Many Thanks in advance

You assume that "everyone" knows what we do, or is a member of this site for that to be true. How many people in your life do you know, that know anything regarding consumer credit law? exactly.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

How many people in your life do you know, that know anything regarding consumer credit law? exactly.

I know one - me!

Then on here, my virtual world, I know a few hundred

[ken100464]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Lippy.

From a nearly newbie it works on here.

We went from constant hassle, being on the bones of our arse and our creditors trying to extract blood from a stone.

We didnt think for one minute that they could be acting outside the law, could be ignoring regulators and courts, ignoring legal requests for documents, not reading letters and generally behaving like the mafia.

Everyone who comes on here has done so for a reason. Normally as we are clutching at straws as we slowly sink into the morass of debt that we have.

The turnaround is remarkable. 8 months ago we were in the shit. Now the phone is ours again, the postman brings a stream of good news, we have money to live life again and we are dealing with issues so one day we can emerge from this nightmare.

Our creditors no longer are baying for our blood indeed they have gone remarkable silent. They have become polite and are dealing with the wrong doing that knowledge from other very switched on posters give for free.

We have had a 25% offer off a secured CCJ, apologies from banks,compensation from DCA's and a general improvement of how they interact with us.

Each and every debt is different as is each and every poster on here. Put these combinations together and therefore each and every solution is different.

Thats why the diaries are so important. They give an overall flavour of the situation people are in and also where each debt is. Many posters have travelled the road before you and can sometimes predict the next letter.

Follow the guides post your diary listen to the advice and then act for how it suits you best.

As someone who is recently new I can tell you it works if you allow it to work.

[LippyKid]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Never in Doubt - Many Thanks for your response and the welcome, I just re read the part of my post re the template, I didn't intend to offend although can see why it could be construed that way it just seemed to me it may be more effective if it was written not so candidly but what do I know it obvisouly works I'm just not used to corresponding that way in any aspect of my life but am willing to learn more so will do so.
Starting straight away re the other questions can I ask is UE the same F&F?
clarification re secure debt does it mean secure debt can only repaid by settling the full amount its not open to F&F whether is with the original lender or DCA.
One last thing reading the guides it reiterates the need to use a third party to make the payment but you have said its ok for me personally to do is that for DCA only?

SX Guy -thanks for contributing as well, I don't presume anything its just I was a little confused where I had been reading threads and the main guide on F&F then came across another guide on here advocating there might not even be a need to go the F&F route and how to handle the alternatives plus it was late.. brain frazzled lols.

Ken10064 - Thanks for your welcome and your response, it's good to know the advice and help here is valueable if you absorb it put into action and your story is something to aspire to you've obviously worked hard to get there.

Cheers All

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Hiya

Ok, I'll try and explain a bit further. When doing a F&F you'd usually want to avoid sending them your signature - as they can utilise that to reconstitute an agreement in line with Carey and then use that against you if you are going down the CCA route. The templates you refer are designed for people chasing unenforceability hence they are tailored to be blunt for a reason because you're basically telling the lender/dca that they'd do well to make a deal or they're getting nothing. Its all a game - you have to play the game.

As you're not going down the CCA (or unenforceability) route you don't need to obscure your signature do you? You want to settle...?

However, to explain. If you want to do a F&F then it's ALWAYS best to first check for enforceability by sending for a CCA and then dependant on whether it's UE or not depends how you'd play next. So lets assume it's enforceable, we'd look to write back claiming it is UE and then make a cheeky offer to settle - at this point we would suggest NOT signing anything and use a postal order (i.e. 3rd party).

If it was unenforceable we'd then write back and say get stuffed. If they wanted to do a deal, you'd be in a much better position once you know the outcome of enforceability plus you could try and negotiate removal of any default.

No unenforceability is utilising the consumer credit act to find fault with the agreement to not pay anything at all and sit it out until it goes State Barred (6yrs) whereas F&F is a full and final offer to settle. You can negotiate any F&F - but it's whether they want to do a deal or prepared to even accept what you offer.

Does this help explain it better?

[LippyKid]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Hiya

Ok, I'll try and explain a bit further. When doing a F&F you'd usually want to avoid sending them your signature - as they can utilise that to reconstitute an agreement in line with Carey and then use that against you if you are going down the CCA route. The templates you refer are designed for people chasing unenforceability hence they are tailored to be blunt for a reason because you're basically telling the lender/dca that they'd do well to make a deal or they're getting nothing. Its all a game - you have to play the game.

As you're not going down the CCA (or unenforceability) route you don't need to obscure your signature do you? You want to settle...?

However, to explain. If you want to do a F&F then it's ALWAYS best to first check for enforceability by sending for a CCA and then dependant on whether it's UE or not depends how you'd play next. So lets assume it's enforceable, we'd look to write back claiming it is UE and then make a cheeky offer to settle - at this point we would suggest NOT signing anything and use a postal order (i.e. 3rd party).

If it was unenforceable we'd then write back and say get stuffed. If they wanted to do a deal, you'd be in a much better position once you know the outcome of enforceability plus you could try and negotiate removal of any default.

No unenforceability is utilising the consumer credit act to find fault with the agreement to not pay anything at all and sit it out until it goes State Barred (6yrs) whereas F&F is a full and final offer to settle. You can negotiate any F&F - but it's whether they want to do a deal or prepared to even accept what you offer.

Does this help explain it better?

Yes Thanks once again more clear now, I think I said in OP that its possible I might in a postion to do this its not cut and dried as yet so I'll have to wait and see , but if so is there any value in relaying any experiences to the forum community here if and when it happens?

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Newbie here, I've taken the time to read a couple of threads on here mainly the guides re F&F, as I possibly maybe in a position this year to settle some of my debts but obviously if I can reduce the costs of doing so then all well and good.
However after researching as said its seems it is a complete minefield.
So can anyone advise.
Firstly is it advisable to leave secured debt and only concentrate on unsecured?
If its not with a DCA already is it best to let it go until it does and then attempt to do a F&F after?
The advise to do it via a third party does this have to be an individual or can it be a company cheque for example?
The templates for the letters seem a tad cavalier in its lanaguage is this right wouldn't it carry more weight if it had a more professional tone? (no offence to the author just purely thinking of effectiveness)
And lastly one of the guides actually suggested to not even consider F&F whatsoever as the default disappears after 6 years just play brinkmanship until then but surely the debt is still repayable until its repaid as everyone would do that wouldn't they?..or am I missing something??

Many Thanks in advance

To be honest seeing a lot of template letters from DCA and such like, ours can be mild to say the least, but to the point, and not the uneducated dribble a lot churn out which a 5 year old could produce in a clearer format.

[ken100464]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Like has been said already even if you are after F & F for whatever reason then there is no harm seeking out the agreements.

You may at first have a figure in your head that you would deal at.

But finding your agreement is UE and basically the creditor is going to be hard pushed to get anything out of you could actually make you decide the original figure you had in your head is way too high. It becomes a bargaining chip in your solution

The more desperate they get the better the deal will be.

Everyones life is different as is every solution. I see it as a game of chess. You are pushing your creditor into a position they cant get out of.

Once you get to check mate then you find your solution whatever that may be.

Our journey is no where near ended but the improvement in quality of life is immeasurable.

We just wouldnt be where we are without the help of everyone on here.

Again from our own experience. Our most vocal DCA has had our CCA request since Nov. I know its a storecard that morphed into a credit card hence its UE as no new agreement was signed.

This DCA likes default judgements alot so should be classed as V dangerous.

The amount is a pittance in the scheme of things but guess what. From being the biggest pain in the ass DCA, we havnt had one contact from them since the request went in. Nothing.

The debts still there they are still there just their attitude to us has changed. We have become hard work for them.

By seperating each debt out and treating it on its own, clarity comes on how each one is different and how each will follow a different path.

I made the mistake when first on here of seeing our problem in the whole and where we were in the totality of our debt.

The guys and gals on here clear your view and guide you. The more work you put in yourself to learn the clearer it all becomes.

Thats not to say I dont still ask dumbass questions sometimes.

[vint1954]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Lippy.

From a nearly newbie it works on here.

We went from constant hassle, being on the bones of our arse and our creditors trying to extract blood from a stone.

We didnt think for one minute that they could be acting outside the law, could be ignoring regulators and courts, ignoring legal requests for documents, not reading letters and generally behaving like the mafia.

Everyone who comes on here has done so for a reason. Normally as we are clutching at straws as we slowly sink into the morass of debt that we have.

The turnaround is remarkable. 8 months ago we were in the shit. Now the phone is ours again, the postman brings a stream of good news, we have money to live life again and we are dealing with issues so one day we can emerge from this nightmare.

Our creditors no longer are baying for our blood indeed they have gone remarkable silent. They have become polite and are dealing with the wrong doing that knowledge from other very switched on posters give for free.

We have had a 25% offer off a secured CCJ, apologies from banks,compensation from DCA's and a general improvement of how they interact with us.

Each and every debt is different as is each and every poster on here. Put these combinations together and therefore each and every solution is different.

Thats why the diaries are so important. They give an overall flavour of the situation people are in and also where each debt is. Many posters have travelled the road before you and can sometimes predict the next letter.

Follow the guides post your diary listen to the advice and then act for how it suits you best.

As someone who is recently new I can tell you it works if you allow it to work.

Very well put Ken

[LippyKid]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Like has been said already even if you are after F & F for whatever reason then there is no harm seeking out the agreements.

You may at first have a figure in your head that you would deal at.

But finding your agreement is UE and basically the creditor is going to be hard pushed to get anything out of you could actually make you decide the original figure you had in your head is way too high. It becomes a bargaining chip in your solution

The more desperate they get the better the deal will be.

Everyones life is different as is every solution. I see it as a game of chess. You are pushing your creditor into a position they cant get out of.

Once you get to check mate then you find your solution whatever that may be.

Our journey is no where near ended but the improvement in quality of life is immeasurable.

We just wouldnt be where we are without the help of everyone on here.

Again from our own experience. Our most vocal DCA has had our CCA request since Nov. I know its a storecard that morphed into a credit card hence its UE as no new agreement was signed.

This DCA likes default judgements alot so should be classed as V dangerous.

The amount is a pittance in the scheme of things but guess what. From being the biggest pain in the ass DCA, we havnt had one contact from them since the request went in. Nothing.

The debts still there they are still there just their attitude to us has changed. We have become hard work for them.

By seperating each debt out and treating it on its own, clarity comes on how each one is different and how each will follow a different path.

I made the mistake when first on here of seeing our problem in the whole and where we were in the totality of our debt.

The guys and gals on here clear your view and guide you. The more work you put in yourself to learn the clearer it all becomes.

Thats not to say I dont still ask dumbass questions sometimes.

Cracking Post Ken, thanks again, I love the way you looked at your situ and then by learning and asking for advice here put into practice to get where you are today.

[LippyKid]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

It looks like I may be able to do this quicker than I thought originally, I currrently have:-

28.5k on a secured loan
5K on a Credit Card - DCA unsecured
5.4K on another Credit Card - DCA unsecured

I've managed to secure a maximum of 30K to split the offers to them, however I'm thinking with the DCA's we already have payment plans in place minimal amounts of £10 & £5 a month, it seems crazy to potentially hand over thousands to save £25 a month! obviously the upside is its off our back for good assuming they accept.

So my question is that the secured loan is the priority but if I leave the DCA ones off the F&F letter will it hinder my chances of acceptance? do they cross reference anything to make sure you are actually going to make an offer to everyone on the list? its seems to make sense that the more creditors listed on there reduces their chances of thinking they can squeeze more money out of you, or would it better to state there is smaller budget from the outset?

Any advice gratefully received.

[MrsD]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Did you send out the CCAs?
If you did,, did you get answers?
If you did did you upload the CCAs you received to Niddy?

If you are determined to do F&Fs, you need to put yourself in the best possible position, see above.

I'm not sure that you have any chance of doing a F&F on a secured loan, as it is secured, why would they?

[LippyKid]

Re: To F&F or not to F&F

Thanks MrsD no haven't requested CCA's as yet, surely if payment plans are in place that means an acceptance of debt by ourselves.
Fair point re the secured loan think I'll concentrate on that one at get it cleared and forget the DCA's at least for now.

Thanks everyone for thier help