Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

[malamute]

This may be overly optimistic - but is there a way of ascertaining how much a debt was sold on for?

Would it be on what I've heard as the Deed of Assignment?

Might be naive in thinking I could get my hands on this - but curious. I'd imagine different dcas pay different amounts depending on the account? Or is it a fixed amount/percentage depending on the account?



Thanks!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

This would form part of a dca business model and be exempt from public viewing under DPA exclusions.

A dca does not buy one debt; they buy "books" ie several debts at varying values with varying status. For example you could buy bad debt (ie gone away) or good debt (paying via dmp) and each status would have a value. So the dca may get 10000 random bad debts and pay 12p in the £1 whereas a smaller purchase of say 2000 good debts may cost 40p in the £1.

40p in the pound is the top end purchase price. It never exceeds this.

In answer to your question then, no. You cannot find out unless the dca mucked up and sent you a screen print containing a "value" in which case you'd ve able to work it out.

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

As far as I know you/we have no prescriptive right to this information. I believe that you will have great difficulty in obtainig the Deed of assignment. You may get it if procedings are started under the CPR.

Garlok

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Thanks Niddy & Garlok! - makes a bit more sense now!

[BBoo]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Sadly there is no way to get this information. If only there were.......

It still frustrates me that the debt can be charged out, but still exist and be sold on, so even if you don't pay, the OC makes money from it. That has to be wrong!

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Agreed!

But its this forum that educates (not judges) and gives me the right info to negotiate a lesser settlement to reduce the profit of the bullying DCA!

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Sadly there is no way to get this information. If only there were.......

It still frustrates me that the debt can be charged out, but still exist and be sold on, so even if you don't pay, the OC makes money from it. That has to be wrong!

Not so fast. This may all change for the better this month The OFT are due to publish an amended version of their Debt Collection Guidance 2003 (amended 2006). I expect the release has been timed to coincide with Niddy's return from holiday

There were a number of debtor-biased changes in the consultation document (I can email a copy to the site) but one was the requirement for a creditor to inform a debtor when a debt had been "Written Off" and (better still) to inform them of the exact consequences to them. The creditor must say whether the debt has been "extinguished" for ever, or whether it could be sold on to a 3rd party. There was also a bit about exactly how much it was sold on for etc but that's wishful thinking - or maybe not. We'll see

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Not so fast. This may all change for the better this month The OFT are due to publish an amended version of their Debt Collection Guidance 2003 (amended 2006). I expect the release has been timed to coincide with Niddy's return from holiday

There were a number of debtor-biased changes in the consultation document (I can email a copy to the site) but one was the requirement for a creditor to inform a debtor when a debt had been "Written Off" and (better still) to inform them of the exact consequences to them. The creditor must say whether the debt has been "extinguished" for ever, or whether it could be sold on to a 3rd party. There was also a bit about exactly how much it was sold on for etc but that's wishful thinking - or maybe not. We'll see

Fingers crossed - I'm in my UE saga so this will no doubt be worth keeping an eye out for!!

Thanks loads!!!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

PlanB,

Yes please email a copy to niddy then he can decide if it can go on the open site or if it has to wait for the new amendments to be released first.

Either way niddy will know.

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

PlanB,

Yes please email a copy to niddy then he can decide if it can go on the open site or if it has to wait for the new amendments to be released first.

Either way niddy will know.

Okay I'll email it now to niddy@. I got it last March from the OFT website (I think) but it is only a consultation document and not the final version. I had a long chat last week with the policy-maker named on the bottom of the doc and she said that most of the 'issues' raised have made it into the final version But she would say that wouldn't she. I'm going to hold my breath anyway

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

The problem with OFT guidance is that it is just that "guidance" and the debt collection industry will ignore it as they do now until there are major numbers of complaints by the public against an individual company.

Rule 2.8 c & d has been in how long? The DCAs have NEVER contacted our appointed representatives as is required so what sanctions are included in this latest round to enforce the rules?

Garlok

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

The DCAs have NEVER contacted our appointed representatives as is required so what sanctions are included in this latest round to enforce the rules?

Garlok

Appoint Niddy as a non-executive director to the OFT board of directors? Hell, why not make him a full director so the poor man can at least get paid for his devotion to duty. That would work

[Susie]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I'm sure that IF the guidance notes state that the amount debts are sold for should be disclosed on request, then Niddy will have a template letter whipped up pretty damned quickly!!

It would be fantastic if they did have to disclose the amount, but I'm not holding my breath!

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I'm sure that IF the guidance notes state that the amount debts are sold for should be disclosed on request, then Niddy will have a template letter whipped up pretty damned quickly!!

It would be fantastic if they did have to disclose the amount, but I'm not holding my breath!

But even if they don't have to disclose exactly how much a debt has been sold on for, it'll be useful to know what it was "written off" for in the creditor's books and we'll do the Maths. I take Niddy's point about DCAs buying a book of collective debts which have been graded and priced as 'collectable' or not, and so I would expect all mine to be packaged in the "No Hope" book

More importantly if the debt is revealed as "extinguished" this may have an intriguing knock-on effect for legal stuff n'est ce pas? Why should a Debt Purchaser be able to take you to court for an amount which is no longer owed in theory. How can a court 'price' the debt as per POCs. Ok now I'm talking out of my bottom about the fantasy of a New World which doesn't exist where debtors are treated fairly, but you can see why this is an important issue to anyone seeking F & Fs. I'll bugger off now and leave the debate to the experts I hope I haven't raised any expectations unfairly - that's cartainly not what I had in mind

[malamute]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

But even if they don't have to disclose exactly how much a debt has been sold on for, it'll be useful to know what it was "written off" for in the creditor's books and we'll do the Maths. I take Niddy's point about DCAs buying a book of collective debts which have been graded and priced as 'collectable' or not, and so I would expect all mine to be packaged in the "No Hope" book

More importantly if the debt is revealed as "extinguished" this may have an intriguing knock-on effect for legal stuff n'est ce pas? Why should a Debt Purchaser be able to take you to court for an amount which is no longer owed in theory. How can a court 'price' the debt as per POCs. Ok now I'm talking out of my bottom about the fantasy of a New World which doesn't exist where debtors are treated fairly, but you can see why this is an important issue to anyone seeking F & Fs. I'll bugger off now and leave the debate to the experts I hope I haven't raised any expectations unfairly - that's cartainly not what I had in mind

Thanks for your input on my question though - its been really helpful. The reason I asked is because a few of my accounts are being shown to be enforceable and I was curious about F&F and having read the other posts the discussion around "purchase price" made me wonder so - as recommended by Niddy - when I've all my accounts shown to be either enforceable or unenforceable I've got a better understanding. Afterall, I'm stuck with a default so dammed if I'm paying 5k for a debt possibly purchase for as little as £500!!