Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

The problem with OFT guidance is that it is just that "guidance" and the debt collection industry will ignore it as they do now until there are major numbers of complaints by the public against an individual company.

Rule 2.8 c & d has been in how long? The DCAs have NEVER contacted our appointed representatives as is required so what sanctions are included in this latest round to enforce the rules?

At a guess, I'd say that someone from the Office of Faffing and Twaddling might ask a company director to stand on the naughty step for as long as five whole minutes.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Why should a Debt Purchaser be able to take you to court for an amount which is no longer owed in theory?

Why shouldn't they, when an effective defence would be that the alleged debt no longer exists, has been forgiven, is extinguished or is statute barred?

The debt farmer will have to pay his costs, may have to pay your costs too and might even be ordered to pay compensation.

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

That's really helpful is there a way of finding out their financial year?

Yes.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

If the government had the slightest notion about how to boost the economy, they would ban the sale of consumer debt to third parties and require the banks to offer the debtor the chance to make a Full & Final Settlement on their debt for the same amount they would sell to a DCA (payable by low instalments if needed)..thus releasing billions of pounds into the economy with the debtors new spending power.
DCA's could then be retrained and used to pulverise all the doorsteps they've collected over the years, to fill the pot holes the councils can't afford to repair....

But back to the real world, where pudgy chops Cameron is now saying "people should all repay their credit card debts" in a spirit of war time optimism to face the hard times to come (and boost the banks coffers).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ore-debts.html

Oops there goes a bloody Whiz Bang..

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Third party cheque is normally the route preferably via a solicitor representing you if you go this way. Not usually recommended on this site or via its templates. In principle you are correct, charity and it was established in the Bracken v billinghurst case which in turn refers to Fletcher Moulton LLJ's rulings in the C of A in the Temple case. Fundamentally the debt is extinguished (note) if the third party cheque(s) are cashed. If it is the debtor's cheque then the debtor MUST be informed immediately that the cheque is taken on account only as per Lloyd LJ, C of A, Stour Valley Builders. 7 days acceptable, 8 weeks not.

"it matters not what the creditor intends but by his words and actions he has led the debtor to believe" et al.

Also refer Cantor Index case ) emphasis on " performance".

So a more certain way of ensuring that the debt would be forgiven or extinguished would be for a trusted third party to pay a sum to the creditor in exchange for an absolute assignment of the debt?

Or would it make better sense for the TTP to pay only for an exclusive equitable assignment of the debt, whereby the TTP would have the sole right to any payments due on that debt but not be liable for any of the creditor's responsibilities?

[BBoo]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

It's worse than that, as not only does the OC make money from the debt by selling/assigning it to a debt collector, the OC will also claim the full value of the debt against taxable profits.

That's what I meant, but I'm not as elokwe.... Elacwen... eloq...... good with words as what you are like sort of thing!

[BBoo]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

So a more certain way of ensuring that the debt would be forgiven or extinguished would be for a trusted third party to pay a sum to the creditor in exchange for an absolute assignment of the debt?

Or would it make better sense for the TTP to pay only for an exclusive equitable assignment of the debt, whereby the TTP would have the sole right to any payments due on that debt but not be liable for any of the creditor's responsibilities?

I'd never even thought down this route, but is there a legal reason why this doesn't happen? It would seem sensible.

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Why shouldn't they, when an effective defence would be that the alleged debt no longer exists, has been forgiven, is extinguished or is statute barred?

The debt farmer will have to pay his costs, may have to pay your costs too and might even be ordered to pay compensation.

I say a debt purchaser should only be allowed to claim for his actual loss, which would only be what he paid for it in the first place It seems reasonable for the claimant to also claim for his honest expense in pursuing the debt (a dozen phone calls at most). The hard part will be the definition of "honest"

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

So a more certain way of ensuring that the debt would be forgiven or extinguished would be for a trusted third party to pay a sum to the creditor in exchange for an absolute assignment of the debt?

Or would it make better sense for the TTP to pay only for an exclusive equitable assignment of the debt, whereby the TTP would have the sole right to any payments due on that debt but not be liable for any of the creditor's responsibilities?

Or maybe Option 3 would be for me to buy the absolute assignment of my own debt at a knock-down price, and then after Niddy has declared it UE I could sell it on to a DCA for a profit

[garlok]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Hi Shepherdess,

Trying to catch up, as usual sorry for the delay. No, the legal representative has to be seen to have "clean hands" and to be acting only in the best interests of the client. Therefore, the cheque(s) in this case have to come from a friend or relative who does not have the same name as you. Then their correspondence can truthfully say that you are not in a position to repay the debt in full. However a benefactor has stepped in who is prepared to make an offer of £XXXX in Full & Final settlement and so on almost as per the template letters on the site here. What has to be made clear is that an essential condition of the cheque(s) being cashed is that they may not further pursue the outstanding balance(s) using Penny v Cole (1602).

However I want to be clear I am NOT recommending anyone try this route on their own, it is fraught with pitfalls of the Common Law and always but always use a solicitor who knows what they are doing. Otherwise follow the site advice and get full agreement in writing to ALL of the terms you have laid down BEFORE sending any money.

I do not wish to be derogatory in any way but the normal High Street practice will fob you off with a case known as Comissioners of Inland Revenue v Fry. Happy to do all this explaining but be careful!! I could write a book on it and still it would be wrong due to the vagaries of Common Law.

regards
Garlok

Interesting!
Garlok - did you pay the money to your Solicitors and then they issued a cheque drawn on their own a/c to the creditor/s, thus the sols being the third party?

Shep xx

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Garlok. Everything you say makes sense. I've never owed a penny in my life that I couldn't pay back on time until now (aged 60+). But it seems I'm entering into some twilight zone where there are new rules and regs on collection procedures since Lehman Brothers hit the deck My lenders/creditors are in sudden deep shit (due to their unwise business decisions in that financial free for all) and they want to re-write those rules to withrdraw 'understanding and tolerance' because they're in trouble with the banks which underwrote them. So what do we do now?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I say we put you up for Maggie pt2 - planB for PM anyone.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I say we put you up for Maggie pt2 - planB for PM anyone.....

So long as I can be finance minister - please?

[PlanB]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

I say we put you up for Maggie pt2 - planB for PM anyone.....

Thanks for the nomination. I so need a new handbag

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Proof of how much a debt was sold for?

Thanks for the nomination. I so need a new handbag

Just use your saggyness like the other pensioners

* cheeky niddy legs it knowing two weeks is ample time to change identities...