Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

[wasp]

Hi, I am being pursued for an amount which appears to date back to 2002 as the last point of contact.

It was passed from DCA1 to DCA 2, and in September 2010 I wrote to DCA 2 asking for a copy of the credit agreement using a template (consumer credit Act 1974 s77).

DCA 2 replied within the 12 working days to say they had returned the account to DCA 1 and passed on my request.

21 days after the confirmation from DCA 2, I got a confirmation from DCA 1 to say they would provide the information, and expected to be able to do so within a further 12 days (working days was not mentioned).

After 35 days they wrote and confirmed they had not been able to provide the information "within the relevant time period", but still saying I was "obliged to repay".

292 days later (yes, you read that right!) they finally produced the (photocopied then sent through a fax machine by the looks of it) credit agreement including signature and terms and conditions.

I ignored it as I figured it was all dealt with when they took more than the statutory 12 working days. However, that was 13 months ago, and I am still getting a letter once a month, and now it has been passed to DCA 3!

1. Since I wrote to DCA 2 and they passed the request to DCA 1, am I covered by the 12 working day rule, and what date would it run from?
2. In any case, DCA 1 took almost a year to respond in substance, so should I now write to DCA 1 confirming they did not reply in time? I can see templates for No Response, or Invalid Response, but none of the templates seem to cover a Late Response (especially one after they have already admitted they missed the time limit)? Might they say I am at some sort of fault for taking so long to write back to them after ignoring their subsequent letters?
3. Should I just go straight to the 5 year Statute Barred (Scotland) template? Or am I confusing the matter?
4. Should I have any contact with DCA 3 meanwhile, or just see how DCA 1 responds?

[Pixie]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

The first thing I would do is send the cca you've received to Niddy to see if it's UE and then we'll know how to proceed User Guide - Sending your Agreement to Niddy - allaboutFORUMS

In the meantime I would send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Account Sold whilst in Dispute to DCA3 (you are allowed to name them!)

[jon1965]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

Just to point out that the all the 12+2 days rule says is that once that has passed they can not enforce UNTIL they have complied, so even after 292 days have passed, once they have provided an enforceable agreement they can enforce.

Are you saying that between 2002 and 2010 you did not acknowledge or pay anything towards the debt? If that is the case you should have nothing to worry about but I would still send the agreement to Niddy to have a look at

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

The first thing I would do is send the cca you've received to Niddy to see if it's UE and then we'll know how to proceed User Guide - Sending your Agreement to Niddy - allaboutFORUMS

In the meantime I would send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Account Sold whilst in Dispute to DCA3 (you are allowed to name them!)

ok i will get them scanned and emailed tonight

i had hoped if i contact DCA 1 again then they will take it back off DCA 3, saving me the hassle of contacting them directly?

[jon1965]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

I would say that once it has been passed on you must deal with the people who are writing to you at the moment. DCA 1 will have either passed it back to the OC who will have farmed it out again OR will have passed it on to someone else.

You don't say who owns the debt, DCA1,2,3 or still the OC

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

Hi Wasp and welcome to AAD!

Would you care to give us a bit more information regarding who the creditor and the DCAs are? Maybe you can do it in this format to make it easier for us to see what's going on and for you to update.

• Type of account (credit card/loan)
  
  
• Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
  
  
• Approx balance
  
  
• Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
  
  
• Are you on arrangement or not paying
  
  
• Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
  
  
• Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)

Type of account credit card
Date commenced 1999
Approx balance £2100-£2200
Date last paid 2002
Account owner Bank of Scotland

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

DCA1 = Clarity
DCA2 = Cabot Financial
DCA3 = MacKenzie Hall

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

I would say that once it has been passed on you must deal with the people who are writing to you at the moment. DCA 1 will have either passed it back to the OC who will have farmed it out again OR will have passed it on to someone else.

You don't say who owns the debt, DCA1,2,3 or still the OC

DCA3, I believe, but that was back in July. my family often misplace my mail, sometimes for months at at time!

[Pixie]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

If you last paid in 2002, then it's statute-barred and they can whistle for it!

I'll have a look for the template letter...

EDIT: If you're sure you haven't acknowledged the debt since 2002 send Our Templates | Unenforceability Templates | Statute Barred - Scotland (5 years) to MacKenzie Hall.

DCAs are known for trying it on...

[jon1965]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

MH are a bunch of . Lowest of the low. Make sure you haven't acknowledged the debt in writing then send the SB letter

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

If you last paid in 2002, then it's statute-barred and they can whistle for it!

I'll have a look for the template letter...

ok, so should i await another letter then send the statute barred, or send to DCA3 and hope they are the current 'owners' of the non-existent debt?

and is there any point sending the agreement to Niddy now, since it is statute barred?

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

MH are a bunch of . Lowest of the low. Make sure you haven't acknowledged the debt in writing then send the SB letter

the only contact i had was in 2010:

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

I require you to provide me with a true copy, or reconstituted copy of the credit agreement relating to any account you deem to be mine, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days). You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request; the provisions of s.77 will apply.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

Attached is payment in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee and then remove the incorrect entry from your systems.

[wasp]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

if i have another alleged debt from the same year (2002), which has also never been contacted in that time, should i send the statute barred template to them too? or find out what the debt was regarding first, by asking for the agreement like i did above?

[edit] spelling

[Pixie]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

Why did you request the cca in2010...the debt was already statute-barred?

Sending a cca request doesn't constitute acknowledging the debt so I'd be sending the SB letter to DCA3. It doesn't matter whether or not they're the "owners", they're the ones chasing you...which they are allowed to do but they can't take you to court to enforce it if it's SB.

I wouldn't bother sending the cca to Niddy.

[Pixie]

Re: Complicated (perhaps) mixture of templates/options

if i have another alleged debt from the same year (2002), which has also never been contacted in that time, should i send the statute barred template to them too? or find out what the debt was regarding first, by asking for the agreement like i did above?

[edit] spelling

If no-one's contacted you about the other debt, then just let sleeping dogs lie.

If a dca have contacted you, just send the SB letter to them.