DCA's and assigned debts

[jj69]

Morning all...
Can anyone clarify what happens to a disputed debt that is sold to a DCA ?
I have a loan + one bank account with Apex and another bank account with Capquest.
Same old story massive charges on them all but now sold on by the original OC so balance confirmed as zero by the OC's..
My credit file has been updated by the DCA's..
I have been dealing with the DCA's with the standard CCA requests etc and in writing back and forth for the last year..but my question is if I decide to dispute these accounts then where does this leave the DCA ?
One DCA has said they will contact the OC for further information but this is just stalling because they have diddly squat.
The second DCA I have been paying reduced amounts on and off but having found some old statements I can see these accounts have charges I will be claiming back.
I have recently sent letters asking for notice of assigments,default notices etc..
Now I intend to write to the OC's and start the process of disputing so therefore I should tell the DCA's to feck right off ?? and if I do will the account in dispute letter swing it ?

[MrsD]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

you should be writing to who ever is writing to you, if that's a DCA, then write to the DCA. Mostly DCAs work on behalf of the OC, but occasionally debs are sold and you should have received the realative notice of assignment, if this has happened then the new owner of the account is the DCA and you don't need to deal with the OC.

Do you want to give us some more detail, whand what and when?

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

you should be writing to who ever is writing to you, if that's a DCA, then write to the DCA. Mostly DCAs work on behalf of the OC, but occasionally debs are sold and you should have received the realative notice of assignment, if this has happened then the new owner of the account is the DCA and you don't need to deal with the OC.

Do you want to give us some more detail, whand what and when?

Yes the debts have been sold on , I have been paying small token payments to one DCA and nothing to the other.
Both bank accounts have massive charges as has the loan.
The barclays account is OD to the tune of £1300 ..going back six years total charges are £2300 and I Barclays have refused to refund anything so going the FOS route with this...the others are YB loan/bank acct again about £200 charges on account and about £1000 on loan...
I stupidly paid apex who have the YB loan and account small token sums over the last year while I sorted my other debts , and to be honest I have reported them twice for not respecting collection guidelines which made them back off.
In terms of paperwork I have got a CCA from Apex/YB which looks enforceable but I am positive I did not get a proper DN,or assignment in fact just got a letter from Apex stating we now owe these accounts same with Capquest no assignment letters from Barclays etc..
So going forward to I need to get the DCA's off my case..
The barclays account with Capquest should be straight forward not paid anything and dont intend to but as it is a account I cant go down the CCA route.Tempeted to say no contract with yourself feck off !!
Apex will be a tougher nut therefore which is the best route at this moment..?

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

you should be writing to who ever is writing to you, if that's a DCA, then write to the DCA. Mostly DCAs work on behalf of the OC, but occasionally debs are sold and you should have received the realative notice of assignment, if this has happened then the new owner of the account is the DCA and you don't need to deal with the OC.

Do you want to give us some more detail, whand what and when?

Forgot to add on the last post...if both DCA's do not have or cannot produce the correct NOA,DN etc..then this will give me ammo to dispute and withold payment I would assume...
If they reply to say you need to contact the OC..then again this will dispute these accounts..?

[MrsD]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

Ok to look at unenforceability they need to be ideally pre 2007, but it doesn't apply in the same way to overdrafts. Ideally you shouldn't be paying them because you are continually resetting the SB date every time you make a payment.

have you asked for CCAs with a proper letter (I mean carefully written so as not to admit debt?) If you have received paperwork have you had it checked by someone who knows what a properly executed agreement looks like? Apex are not tough nuts, they are actually daft pussies!! they are a typical DCA telling you they've got all sorts of powers that actually they haven't. I think you need to sort out a diary, so that we can see what is what, dates,types etc. then upload any agreement paperwork they have sent you to Niddy the link on his siggy. then once we've got that all sorted out, we can look at ways to put paid to Apex and make your life a bit easier

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

Ok to look at unenforceability they need to be ideally pre 2007, but it doesn't apply in the same way to overdrafts. Ideally you shouldn't be paying them because you are continually resetting the SB date every time you make a payment.

have you asked for CCAs with a proper letter (I mean carefully written so as not to admit debt?) If you have received paperwork have you had it checked by someone who knows what a properly executed agreement looks like? Apex are not tough nuts, they are actually daft pussies!! they are a typical DCA telling you they've got all sorts of powers that actually they haven't. I think you need to sort out a diary, so that we can see what is what, dates,types etc. then upload any agreement paperwork they have sent you to Niddy the link on his siggy. then once we've got that all sorted out, we can look at ways to put paid to Apex and make your life a bit easier

Yes the SB date is a knackered due to payments to Apex ...
Got my recent credit file report and showing two defaults for Barclays - Barclays themselves 12/02/2008 then Cabot ( sorry not capquest ) 01/05/2008
In terms of dates YB loan default 10/09/2008 updated April 2011 - no mention of YB on this report.
I will dig out what paperwork I have and scan it over..
I did a SAR for Barclays and have account info going back to 2004 before defaulting.
YB stuff I just have some old bank statments and not much on the loan details

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

Ok to look at unenforceability they need to be ideally pre 2007, but it doesn't apply in the same way to overdrafts. Ideally you shouldn't be paying them because you are continually resetting the SB date every time you make a payment.

have you asked for CCAs with a proper letter (I mean carefully written so as not to admit debt?) If you have received paperwork have you had it checked by someone who knows what a properly executed agreement looks like? Apex are not tough nuts, they are actually daft pussies!! they are a typical DCA telling you they've got all sorts of powers that actually they haven't. I think you need to sort out a diary, so that we can see what is what, dates,types etc. then upload any agreement paperwork they have sent you to Niddy the link on his siggy. then once we've got that all sorted out, we can look at ways to put paid to Apex and make your life a bit easier

The more I dig into this the more I can see that Apex will not have the correct documentation even if they did produce a CCA

[BBoo]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

JJ, when you say sold to a DCA, you're better using the word assigned.

There are two main types of assignment, Equitable and Absolute.

If a debt has an Equitable Assignment to a DCA, as the name suggests it is the equity in the debt (the amount owed) that is assigned to the DCA, and the DCA can try to collect that off you. It is otherwise powerless to do anything further without going back to the Original Creditor (OC) as they don't own the debt.

The other assignement is an Assignment in Absolute or Absolute Assignment. This is a totally different beast as here the debt is genuinely sold. It is written off by the OC and sold for x pence in the pound to a DCA along with all its rights and duties. This last bit is critical as it means the DCA now effectively becomes the OC, and if it wants to take you to court it does not have to refer back to anyone as it owns the debt outright.

I hope this clarifies things a little for you.

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

JJ, when you say sold to a DCA, you're better using the word assigned.

There are two main types of assignment, Equitable and Absolute.

If a debt has an Equitable Assignment to a DCA, as the name suggests it is the equity in the debt (the amount owed) that is assigned to the DCA, and the DCA can try to collect that off you. It is otherwise powerless to do anything further without going back to the Original Creditor (OC) as they don't own the debt.

The other assignement is an Assignment in Absolute or Absolute Assignment. This is a totally different beast as hear the debt is genuinely sold. It is written off by the OC and sold for x pence in the pound to a DCA along with all its rights and duties. This last bit is critical as it means the DCA now effectively becomes the OC, and if it wants to take you to court it does not have to refer back to anyone as it owns the debt outright.

I hope this clarifies things a little for you.

Okay I have located a number of documents some from Apex saying how they are now the legal owners of the debt,some from Yorkshire bank saying notice of assigment but just typed in a standard format no reference to the CCA act and Apex now own the bank account but nothing on the actual loan just an Apex document..I also have the CCA for the actual loan ..Is Niddy in the house today ??
I will scan the documents and try to email over to Niddy , I have found a default notice for my loan dated 24/03/2009 but is has no date to rectify the defaults for , is this not a prescribed term of a default notice, it goes along the lines of we will cancel agreement,update CRA,inform a debt collection agency etc...

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

JJ, when you say sold to a DCA, you're better using the word assigned.

There are two main types of assignment, Equitable and Absolute.

If a debt has an Equitable Assignment to a DCA, as the name suggests it is the equity in the debt (the amount owed) that is assigned to the DCA, and the DCA can try to collect that off you. It is otherwise powerless to do anything further without going back to the Original Creditor (OC) as they don't own the debt.

The other assignement is an Assignment in Absolute or Absolute Assignment. This is a totally different beast as hear the debt is genuinely sold. It is written off by the OC and sold for x pence in the pound to a DCA along with all its rights and duties. This last bit is critical as it means the DCA now effectively becomes the OC, and if it wants to take you to court it does not have to refer back to anyone as it owns the debt outright.

I hope this clarifies things a little for you.

Hi just to clarify on this does this mean I should have a assigment notice for these accounts ( including the bank account ) which states Absolute assignment...as I do not have any documentation relating to this although both Yorks and Barclays admit they no longer own these....I obviously need to get more documentation from the OC's as what they have sent is just statements of accounts and not assigment notices etc..

[Paul.]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

Hi just to clarify on this does this mean I should have a assigment notice for these accounts ( including the bank account ) which states Absolute assignment...as I do not have any documentation relating to this although both Yorks and Barclays admit they no longer own these....I obviously need to get more documentation from the OC's as what they have sent is just statements of accounts and not assigment notices etc..

Not quite,

There needs mere be a notice in writing to you telling you who the new owner of the debt is so that you know who you have to pay and who can give you good discharge under the contract.

There is no prescribed form of such a notice other than to say if it states the Date of the assignment, then this date must be correct, if the notice says an assignment took place on the 5 and the master deed agreement says the assignment was on the 4th then the notice will be bad. See W F Harrison v Burke ( per Lord Denning)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

See W F Harrison v Burke ( per Lord Denning)

I do wish you would quote the link from our case law database Paul

---> W F HARRISON & CO v BURKE [1956]

[Paul.]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

I do wish you would quote the link from our case law database Paul

---> W F HARRISON & CO v BURKE [1956]

why? you posted it for me

why do a job when someone else does it for you

[jj69]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

Not quite,

There needs mere be a notice in writing to you telling you who the new owner of the debt is so that you know who you have to pay and who can give you good discharge under the contract.

There is no prescribed form of such a notice other than to say if it states the Date of the assignment, then this date must be correct, if the notice says an assignment took place on the 5 and the master deed agreement says the assignment was on the 4th then the notice will be bad. See W F Harrison v Burke ( per Lord Denning)

Okay slightly confused with the master deed agreement is that something I should have been sent by yorks bank

[garlok]

Re: DCA's and assigned debts

No JJ,

You would be very lucky indeed to have sight of any Deed of Assignment in this day and age. As Paul says, effectively all that is needed is a letter stating that the debt has been assigned in Absolute or that the new owner is .......... Please note that can come from EITHER party to the disposal, there is no prescribed format as such.

As regards the UE route the cut off date really is April 2007 if the inception dates of these debts is post April 2007 then other routes to fighting them would have to be sought.

regards
Garlok