Two Defaults for the same account

[CabotEggd]

Hi

I have three entries on one set of CRA files for the SAME account, two Defaults and another closed as satisfied. I originally had two Default entries for the same account but when I initially contacted the two companies involved, Egg and Cabot, Egg closed theirs to Satisfied.

However, Egg now have two entries for the same account, one as Satisfied and the other as a default created after they had sold on the debt. The company they sold it to, Cabot, also has a DN entry, totalling 3 entries for the same account.

I have written again to both companies to request that they remove the default entries because (A) the first company, EGG, had sold on the account, closed the DN as satisfied and then raised another DN entry on the account after they had sold it on and (B) the second company, Cabot, may have bought the debt but I have never signed an agreement with them so, in my opinion, their default is unlawful.

Egg has yet to reply but Cabot have written back and refused to remove their entry as in their words, they have a duty to report this to the CRA's. Cabot have also now threatened to move my account to their pre-litigation department, whatever that is, unless I telephone them - fat chance of me doing that.

I believe that Cabot are acting unlawfully in crating a DN on the CRA files and am therefore about to write to the Financial Ombudsman to ask them to force the company to remove their Default entry. I expect that Egg will also refuse to remove the DN entry so I would also need the legal basis for getting the FO to back the removal of his entry.

Would you be able to give me the legal stuff on this so that I can state my case clearly to the FO.

[gravytrain]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Did you make any payment arrangements after the termination of your initial account ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Hi

In a nutshell the only entry should be a default for Cabot using the ORIGINAL default date as per the original entry by Egg. So in essence Cabot are correct to report it (using the original details) as they're the new owners by definition of their assignment. Egg have no right to record anything now. There was only ever 1 account so there can only ever be 1 defaulted entry as an account can only default once ie one default per account.

You need to explain what I've said above in similar context to the cra's who are then obliged to remove it. They will see the error immediately.

Which cra shows the duplicate entries? You must complain to the ico first, not the FOS but only if the cra's refuse to remove them. You then complain to the ico about egg and each specific cra that refuses to remove the incorrect entries. The ico should find in your favour at which point they'll request they are removed. You then complain to the FOS and try and get compo for the distress.

Without the ico backing the FOS may not offer too much in way of support. Follow this process and you'll be fine.

[gravytrain]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

This is why I asked the question,

ICO Guidlines


18 Formal rescheduling of the agreement
This involves a formal and permanent rescheduling of the payments due on account. It might include capitalisation of part of the debt; it may extend the length of the loan; it may change the level of payments. This adjustment may take the form of a new agreement or a change to the original agreement.

If a new account is set up for the customer then the original account should be shown on the credit reference file as settled, with the correct payment history shown up to the time of rescheduling.

If the rescheduling results in changing the original agreement, the correct payment history up to the time of rescheduling should again be shown, but in this case the credit reference file will not show the account as settled. Information filed after the rescheduling should reflect payments and the terms of the modified agreement.

[CabotEggd]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Hi

I made an offer to Egg which I understood to have been accepted by them (over the telephone as I was not used to the lies and deceit that I later encountered). As Egg did not send me my CCA for about 8 months I stopped paying them to force the issue.

Egg sold my account to Cabot without sending me the CCA (this is unlawful I believe) and after twice requesting more time to locate it. I stopped paying Egg and have not paid them for some time now. I have never paid Cabot anything. I have however paid my other creditors 1% of my debt per month and they have frozen interest.

The CCA Egg later sent me does not match up with the statements as a result of a SAR I sent them. The date on the CCA is a little earlier than the earliest statement but that statement does not show how the money got onto the account. i.e. there is no zero balance before I transferred money from another CC and there should have been. I believe the data I was sent was limited to a later date because the CCA I was sent is a reconstruction, using a copy of my signature from letters I sent to them, with a later date than it should have been.

I thought that as the letter telling me that Egg had sold the account only arrived some time after they had sold it and was not sent by recorded delivery that only the debt had been sold on and not the right to raise a DN. Cabot keep telling me to contact Egg for information so it does appear as though they have only bought the debt. Is this not correct?

Hopefully you can help me with this.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Cabot keep telling me to contact Egg for information so it does appear as though they have only bought the debt. Is this not correct?

No, Crapbot are talking out of their arse as usual. An assignment is an assignment of both rights and duties, so you don't have to contact Egg for anything.

What is it you are trying to achieve here? If it is only the removal of a duplicate default, just follow the steps laid out in post #3.

Are you trying to follow unenforceability with this one? What is it you actually want to achieve?

SH

[CabotEggd]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Hi

Thanks for the information. I'm not saying you are wrong but I am now completely confused.

I have visited the legal beagles site and this is their understanding, from a a Credit Company point of view:

Types of Assignment

Agent - The DCA is acting purely as an agent for the OC and in this case has NO legal powers at all.

Legal (Equitable) Assignment - The DCA is sold the rights to collect the debt, but NOT the duties. In this case they can only take legal action with the OC's full compliance, although they often mislead people as to what this means. This can cause problems, especially with CCA requests, but isn't surmountable. This mechanism is often used for "sale or return" debts.

Absolute Assignment - The entire debt, rights and duties, is sold to the DCA under the Law of Property Act 1925 s136. In this case the DCA now has all the rights, duties and powers of the OC. For this to occur the DCA/OC must inform the debtor that the assignment has taken place in substantiated writing, basically a recorded delivery letter. As the DCA has now replaced the OC they are bound by CCA74 and all that entails.

As Egg never sent the letter to me by Recorded Delivery I can only assume that Cabot is either an Agent or has bought the debt as a Legal (Equitable) Assignment and if so they are not supposed to raise a DN against me.

Am I wrong or are they?

What I want is to have the debt declared unenforceable as I am unable to pay it anyway. The 2 creditors I am paying seem to be playing ball and I want to get rid of this third one for good. Egg has never played ball and have caused me sleepless nights by their lies.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but my circumstances changed dramatically and my credit standing went from Platinum credit to worthless.

I am therefore looking for a way out as I would like to pay a lower mortgage (mine is with Santander and they have just raised the rate) so that I can get out of debt quicker.

By the way the 2 entries for Egg are at least with Credit Expert.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Hi

Gravy. I need to ask you to stop confusing matters like this by quoting incorrect guidelines. This is one account. Thus one entry. The moment the status went from [6] to [D] they lost the right to settle the original creditor entry as THAT entry becomes the defaulted account. You can't default twice!!

Cabotegg - follow my advice in post 3 above. Easy.

[gravytrain]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

No they are right as is SH

It depends what kind of Assignment you have.

Cabot usually by loans outright(total assignment) this would tie in with the fact that you received a notice of assignment form them(Section 196).
In an equitable assignment there is no requirement to send such a notice.

If this is the case then they must provide you with all the information that you require under the CCA ( they are the creditor).

If the agreement was only an equitable assignment then they cannot pursue you through the courts anyway without going back to the OC.

There is no reason why they cannot sell the account whilst the CCA request is outstanding importunately.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

^^^^ no stop confusing assignment into this. It has no bearing whatsoever.

[gravytrain]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

It was ICO guidance Nidd ?

If the account was modified then the old account would be marked settled and the new ones performance would be recorded.

But yes only one default.

That is what it says.

[gravytrain]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

OK Nidd the OP asked about assignment didn't they ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

Yea I get what you're saying but it wasn't modified.

It's a simple duplicated entry error. They see loads of them daily.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

OK Nidd the OP asked about assignment didn't they ?

Ahh but the OP is confusing things with the assignment which doesn't play any part in the entries being duplicated. Cabot have right to update the entry to reflect they are the account owners.

See simples really

[oscar]

Re: Two Defaults for the same account

I have had the same problem and completely agree with Nid.

I didnt bother with compnaies - I went straight to the CRAs. Their first response was "its corect"

I wrote (emailed) back, copying in the CEO, pointing out both defaults were for the same debt, same card, opened on the same day. I also pointed out you could only be defaulted ONCE per debt, and that was the DCA had taken assignment (in absolute) that all information should transfer to them, and the original creditor should be removed.

All original information (Creditor) was quickly removed.