Death of partner and debt.

[Streetwise]

Hi to all,I am the executor of my late partners estate,she had a commercial mortgage for a property she purchased with someone else,the bank are currently trying to call in the loan,they gave me a copy of the loan agreement which I discovered was a forgery,they have now told me that they don't have the original agreement,but I do on file,anybody tell me where I stand with this debt.

[IF]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Hi Streetwise and Welcome, I am sorry as I don't know the answer. Bumping your post up the board.

Best wishes
If...x

[oscar]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

I cant say for definite, but I would have thought, as with other "joint" debts, that the other party becomes liable for the full amount.

Not too sure with it being commercial.

[SXGuy]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Firstly, did you sign anything in terms of the commercial mortgage?

Does your late partner have any assets in her estate that you are managing?

If your late partner had no assets, no money left after death, and you are not connected to the commercial mortgage in any way, then they are just hoping you will roll over and pay.

If there is no money in the estate, you owe them nothing, and the liability rests with the other joint owner, not you.

I was the executor of my late fathers estate, i had credit card companies writing to me demanding payment, but as soon as i notified them that there was no assets or money left after death, and i did not sign any agreements to my fathers debt, attached a copy of his death cert, i never heard from them again.

They all try it on after someone dies, they hope you are not versed in the law, and alot of people end up paying the debt because they think they owe it, they do not. The only time you owe anything towards your partners debt, is if he or she, left any assets or money in the estate, or if you were joint agreement holders.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Firstly, did you sign anything in terms of the commercial mortgage?

Does your late partner have any assets in her estate that you are managing?

If your late partner had no assets, no money left after death, and you are not connected to the commercial mortgage in any way, then they are just hoping you will roll over and pay.

If there is no money in the estate, you owe them nothing, and the liability rests with the other joint owner, not you.

I was the executor of my late fathers estate, i had credit card companies writing to me demanding payment, but as soon as i notified them that there was no assets or money left after death, and i did not sign any agreements to my fathers debt, attached a copy of his death cert, i never heard from them again.

They all try it on after someone dies, they hope you are not versed in the law, and alot of people end up paying the debt because they think they owe it, they do not. The only time you owe anything towards your partners debt, is if he or she, left any assets or money in the estate, or if you were joint agreement holders.

The house that myself and two sons live in was security for the loan,the house was only in my late partners name we were not married,I am trying to find out if anybody can tell me were I stand with the loan agreement being lost by the bank and them trying to recreate a document to try and fool me into thinking it was the original loan agreement,thanks for the replies Streetwise.

[Talay]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Were there no insurances required as a condition of providing the credit ?

What about keyman or other life assurance ?

Did the lender know that you and your kids were resident at the property (if you were) when the loan was taken out or if you became resident later did the lender subsequently know ?

Moving to the agreement, you say it is a forgery. You mean reconstituted by the lender or that another person borrowed the money without your partner's knowledge ? You having the original must mean that the loan exists in reality does it not ?

As it is commercial, the protection afforded general customers would not apply but the lender should surely owe a duty of care to investigate the conditions of any surety pledged. I can see them advising of the need for insurance but also see it being declined, though somewhere that must be noted. What protection it may afford would be for someone with greater knowledge than I to assist.

But returning to yourself, did you not go over the insurance angle with your partner, specifically because you were so dependent upon them regarding the accommodation ? I'm thinking that if you suggested taking out your own policy but being told that your partner had sufficient cover themselves for instance.

As to the property bought with the commercial mortgage. Does its value not cover the debt ? If not, then by how far ?

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Were there no insurances required as a condition of providing the credit ?

What about keyman or other life assurance ?

Did the lender know that you and your kids were resident at the property (if you were) when the loan was taken out or if you became resident later did the lender subsequently know ?

Moving to the agreement, you say it is a forgery. You mean reconstituted by the lender or that another person borrowed the money without your partner's knowledge ? You having the original must mean that the loan exists in reality does it not ?

As it is commercial, the protection afforded general customers would not apply but the lender should surely owe a duty of care to investigate the conditions of any surety pledged. I can see them advising of the need for insurance but also see it being declined, though somewhere that must be noted. What protection it may afford would be for someone with greater knowledge than I to assist.

But returning to yourself, did you not go over the insurance angle with your partner, specifically because you were so dependent upon them regarding the accommodation ? I'm thinking that if you suggested taking out your own policy but being told that your partner had sufficient cover themselves for instance.

As to the property bought with the commercial mortgage. Does its value not cover the debt ? If not, then by how far ?

The bank says there is no loan agreement,so I don't know if there was any insurance or not,they have refused my S.A.R. request as they say it only applies to a living person,I am not sure but an insurance policy was in place for the original loan but for some reason this only seem's to have run for a year,thanks for the reply,Streetwise.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

The bank says there is no loan agreement,so I don't know if there was any insurance or not,they have refused my S.A.R. request as they say it only applies to a living person,I am not sure but an insurance policy was in place for the original loan but for some reason this only seem's to have run for a year,thanks for the reply,Streetwise.

Got a letter from the bank today saying if I don't pay the full amount ( 272,000,00 ) within 14 days they are going to apply for a possession order and an eviction notice,I made them an offer back in August to continue paying the interest and 10,000,00 a year on top but they have just ignored this.

I am due to make another interest payment at the end of this month anybody think this money would be better spent on a solicitor,they do not have a loan agreement for this debt.

Any help please.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

The house that myself and two sons live in was security for the loan,the house was only in my late partners name we were not married,I am trying to find out if anybody can tell me were I stand with the loan agreement being lost by the bank and them trying to recreate a document to try and fool me into thinking it was the original loan agreement,thanks for the replies Streetwise.

This is a tricky one.... If you were not married and the property was solely in your late partner's name, then you have no legal rights over the property and this seems to be why they are hounding you so hard about the debt that's secured on it.

Got a letter from the bank today saying if I don't pay the full amount ( 272,000,00 ) within 14 days they are going to apply for a possession order and an eviction notice,I made them an offer back in August to continue paying the interest and 10,000,00 a year on top but they have just ignored this.

I am due to make another interest payment at the end of this month anybody think this money would be better spent on a solicitor,they do not have a loan agreement for this debt.

Any help please.

As your living arrangements are under threat, you may be best seeking advise from a solicitor over this, yes. This company will want their money and while you are not personally liable for it, your late partner died leaving this property (your home) as an asset. If it had been jointly owned with you, then your position would be stronger but it isn't and as I see it, your legal grounds to try and fight this are not strong. Paying the interest + an amount on top won't make the problem go away in the long term either because the property is not yours.

I'm sorry for sounding so negative but instead of paying this money in interest, you may be better off putting it aside and using it towards securing a new home for yourself and your family.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

This is a tricky one.... If you were not married and the property was solely in your late partner's name, then you have no legal rights over the property and this seems to be why they are hounding you so hard about the debt that's secured on it.



As your living arrangements are under threat, you may be best seeking advise from a solicitor over this, yes. This company will want their money and while you are not personally liable for it, your late partner died leaving this property (your home) as an asset. If it had been jointly owned with you, then your position would be stronger but it isn't and as I see it, your legal grounds to try and fight this are not strong. Paying the interest + an amount on top won't make the problem go away in the long term either because the property is not yours.

I'm sorry for sounding so negative but instead of paying this money in interest, you may be better off putting it aside and using it towards securing a new home for yourself and your family.

Hi P1,and thanks for the reply,the possession order is not for the family home but for the two flats that the family home is a security on,I feel I have made the bank a good offer,and as they have no loan agreement that they can produce and have admitted they don't have an agreement in two letters to me now and a S.A.R. I want to fight them.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Hi P1,and thanks for the reply,the possession order is not for the family home but for the two flats that the family home is a security on,I feel I have made the bank a good offer,and as they have no loan agreement that they can produce and have admitted they don't have an agreement in two letters to me now and a S.A.R. I want to fight them.

Ok... I see.... Have you got any financial interest in these flats? If not, then making an offer to pay interest in them will not get you anywhere in the long term because they will never be yours. Who does the home you're living in belong to and are there any debts attached to that.... or in other words, any other debts secured on it?

I suspect that the bank may see responding to a SAR about another person as a breach of data protection unless you go through a solicitor to do it.

I've just re-read you post.... and the house is not in your name. Is anything in your name?

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Ok... I see.... Have you got any financial interest in these flats? If not, then making an offer to pay interest in them will not get you anywhere in the long term because they will never be yours. Who does the home you're living in belong to and are there any debts attached to that.... or in other words, any other debts secured on it?

I suspect that the bank may see responding to a SAR about another person as a breach of data protection unless you go through a solicitor to do it.

I've just re-read you post.... and the house is not in your name. Is anything in your name?

Yes my wife\s 50% share in the flats was left to me and my 2 son's,in her will.

The offer I have made them is I will pay the interest payments as they are just now 2% above base quarterly, plus a lump some each year of 10,000,00 pounds a year, if not paid of in full within 15 years I will pay any outstanding balance in full then, they are ignoring this offer.And I am about to with draw it.

The house I live in just now is the family home left to myself and my 2 son's in my wife's will,40% to myself and 30% each to my 2 son's,there is an outstanding mortgage that we pay to a building society,we have not transfered ownership yet as this matter with the bank is holding up winding up the estate.

I refer to my late partner as my wife we were not married.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Yes my wife\s 50% share in the flats was left to me and my 2 son's,in her will.

The offer I have made them is I will pay the interest payments as they are just now 2% above base quarterly, plus a lump some each year of 10,000,00 pounds a year, if not paid of in full within 15 years I will pay any outstanding balance in full then, they are ignoring this offer.And I am about to with draw it.

The house I live in just now is the family home left to myself and my 2 son's in my wife's will,40% to myself and 30% each to my 2 son's,there is an outstanding mortgage that we pay to a building society,we have not transfered ownership yet as this matter with the bank is holding up winding up the estate.

I refer to my late partner as my wife we were not married.

Do you know the state of play re. the person who owns the other 50%?..... have you had any contact with this person?

Reading it on face value, it would seem that although 50% of these flats have been left to you and your sons in a Will, all they represent at the moment is a debt and until/unless this debt can be satisfied, your current home is at risk because it's security for them. Is there any equity in them? Regardless of equity, have you considered selling this 50%?

Your proposal to the bank sounds reasonable but in my opinion, needs to be made through a solicitor for them to take you seriously. Before you do this however, please ask yourself how important hanging on these flats really is.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Do you know the state of play re. the person who owns the other 50%?..... have you had any contact with this person?

Reading it on face value, it would seem that although 50% of these flats have been left to you and your sons in a Will, all they represent at the moment is a debt and until/unless this debt can be satisfied, your current home is at risk because it's security for them. Is there any equity in them? Regardless of equity, have you considered selling your 50%?

Your proposal to the bank sounds reasonable but in my opinion, needs to be made through a solicitor for them to take you seriously. Before you do this however, please ask yourself how important hanging on these flats really is.

Hi P1,and thank's again for the reply,yes I am in contact with the other person he is a friend.

I don't want to sell the flats they were to be a pension,if the flats were to be sold in this market they may make a short fall.

If the flats were sold the other partner would have nothing,he is on his backside just now because of the recession.

All the work that went into this project will have achieved nothing, for him or my late wife, as we will just have been picking up money for the bank.They have had all the interest payments now they want the CAKE back,everything will have been for nothing.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Hi P1,and thank's again for the reply,yes I am in contact with the other person he is a friend.

I don't want to sell the flats they were to be a pension,if the flats were to be sold in this market they may make a short fall.

If the flats were sold the other partner would have nothing,he is on his backside just now because of the recession.

All the work that went into this project will have achieved nothing, for him or my late wife, as we will just have been picking up money for the bank.They have had all the interest payments now they want the CAKE back,everything will have been for nothing.

I do understand.... and it sounds like a very difficult time all round right now.

The bank won't see it this way though; payments are not being made by either party it seems and they want their money. As it stands, they can do this by going after the person most likely to cough up. if the other owner is suffering due to the recession, then they will come after your late partner's half through remaining assets and while you are under no obligation to pay (because nothing's in your name.... yet), it also means that your home could be under threat if these flats are eventually repossessed and there's a shortfall debt because your home has been used as security. That's why I'm asking you to consider whether it's worth hanging on to the flats.

If you are intent on keeping them however then in my opinion, you will need to get a solicitor on board to negotiate on your behalf and to stop them from catching you off guard and issuing court papers.

There's a lot to take on here and it's not easy to juggle it all and grieve for the loss of a partner at the same time. I have lost a property through repossession in the past and fully appreciate what you say about the bank having their cake and everything being for nothing.... but sometimes you have to consider all avenues to preserve your own sanity.

Whatever you decide, we will support you on here as best we can..... so no worries.