Death of partner and debt.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

I do understand.... and it sounds like a very difficult time all round right now.

The bank won't see it this way though; payments are not being made by either party it seems and they want their money. As it stands, they can do this by going after the person most likely to cough up. if the other owner is suffering due the recession, then they will come after the your late partner's half and while you are under no obligation to pay (because they're not in your name.... yet), it also means that your home could be under threat if these flats are eventually repossessed and there's a shortfall debt because your home has been used as security. That's why I'm asking you to consider whether it's worth hanging on to the flats.

If you are intent on keeping them however then in my opinion, you will need to get a solicitor on board to negotiate on your behalf and to stop them from catching you off guard and issuing court papers.

There's a lot to take on here and it's not easy to juggle it all and grieve for the loss of a partner at the same time. I have lost a property through repossession in the past and fully appreciate what you say about the bank having their cake and everything being for nothing.... but sometimes you have to consider all avenues to preserve your own sanity.

Whatever you decide, we will support you on here as best we can..... so no worries.

Sorry P1,ALL PAYMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE THE LOAN HAS NEVER BEEN DEFAULTED ON,my late wife passed away just over 2 years ago and I have been trying to sort this out for 18 months,twice in this period they told me that my late wife never had an account with them, even though I gave them the account numbers,they had transfered the account into the other partners sole name.

The advice I am seeking is this if they don't have the loan agreement can they enforce it through the court's.

Anybody know.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Sorry P1,ALL PAYMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE THE LOAN HAS NEVER BEEN DEFAULTED ON,my late wife passed away just over 2 years ago and I have been trying to sort this out for 18 months,twice in this period they told me that my late wife never had an account with them, even though I gave them the account numbers,they had transfered the account into the other partners sole name.

The advice I am seeking is this if they don't have the loan agreement can they enforce it through the court's.

Anybody know.

Right.... so ALL payments have been made on the flats to date, is that what you're saying. Then I don't understand why they're going for possession, no. There seems to be no grounds for possession based upon what you've said unless the flats were transferred to the other owner via documentation you know nothing about and that person has now defaulted.

You really do need a solicitor on this one because it sounds like a lot more digging around may need to be done..... and yes, they can go to court with anything if they think they have a case, regardless of any paperwork they may or may not have to support it.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Right.... so ALL payments have been made on the flats to date, is that what you're saying. Then I don't understand why they're going for possession, no. There seems to be no grounds for possession based upon what you've said unless the flats were transferred to the other owner via documentation you know nothing about and that person has now defaulted.

You really do need a solicitor on this one because it sounds like a lot more digging around may need to be done..... and yes, they can go to court with anything if they think they have a case, regardless of any paperwork they may or may not have to support it.

All payments have been made the account has never been defaulted,the flats have not been transferred,would an English court enforce, and do you think it would be any good putting the account in dispute as they don't have the original loan agreement.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

All payments have been made the account has never been defaulted,the flats have not been transferred,would an English court enforce, and do you think it would be any good putting the account in dispute as they don't have the original loan agreement.

This is a secured debt and you can't put it in dispute. It is not your debt, is too big and will achieve nothing and yes, it could go to court. Anything can potentially go to court if a party believes they have a strong enough case to argue or, believe the party they're fighting doesn't have sufficient information/legal understanding to fight them with.

The difficulty you face is that the flats are not in your name which will get in the way of anything you try and do. The bank simply won't respond to you because of data protection law. You really will need to discuss this with a solicitor to find a way forward.... and uncover why the account was transferred into the other party's name. If the account has indeed been transferred into the other party's name, then this should be the person they're chasing.... The complication is that the home you're living in is security for this debt.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

This is a secured debt and you can't put it in dispute. It is not your debt, is too big and will achieve nothing and yes, it could go to court. Anything can potentially go to court if a party believes they have a strong enough case to argue or, believe the party they're fighting doesn't have sufficient information/legal understanding to fight them with.

The difficulty you face is that the flats are not in your name which will get in the way of anything you try and do. The bank simply won't respond to you because of data protection law. You really will need to discuss this with a solicitor to find a way forward.... and uncover why the account was transferred into the other party's name. If the account has indeed been transferred into the other party's name, then this should be the person they're chasing.... The complication is that the home you're living in is security for this debt.

True the flat's are not in my name,but I am the Executor of my late wife's estate and 50% of the flat's are in her name.And she left her share to myself and our 2 boy's in her will.

Your right they are not chasing me for the debt but they are writing to the partner and he passes the letters on to me and I reply.

The account was transferred into his name upon her death as it was a joint account ( Bussiness ).

Sorry you say I can't put the account in dispute as it is a secured debt,don't understand.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

True the flat's are not in my name,but I am the Executor of my late wife's estate and 50% of the flat's are in her name.And she left her share to myself and our 2 boy's in her will.

Your right they are not chasing me for the debt but they are writing to the partner and he passes the letters on to me and I reply.

The account was transferred into his name upon her death as it was a joint account ( Bussiness ).

Sorry you say I can't put the account in dispute as it is a secured debt,don't understand.

Yes, I understand what you're saying but she was not your wife in the legal sense, so you have no automatic rights.. You are the Executor yes, but for some reason, the bank are not acknowledging that fact. As far as they're concerned the (Business) account now belongs to the co-owner of the flats.... and from what you're saying, they're now wanting to repossess the flats.... based upon what? What kind of proof have you sent to the bank to say that you are Executor.... and what's been their response?

You have said that all payments have been maintained on the flats, that there is no default and so on..... so upon what basis are they wanting to repossess. Does the co-owner know? Has the co-owner asked (in writing)? Does the co-owner also want to keep the flats? Has the co-owner requested a Statement of Account?

There seems to be something missing from this story and until we get the full picture, I'm finding it hard to advise other than to suggest you speak to a solicitor to get hold of the information that the bank seems to be withholding.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Yes, I understand what you're saying but she was not your wife in the legal sense, so you have no automatic rights.. You are the Executor yes, but for some reason, the bank are not acknowledging that fact. As far as they're concerned the (Business) account now belongs to the co-owner of the flats.... and from what you're saying, they're now wanting to repossess the flats.... based upon what? What kind of proof have you sent to the bank to say that you are Executor.... and what's been their response?

You have said that all payments have been maintained on the flats, that there is no default and so on..... so upon what basis are they wanting to repossess. Does the co-owner know? Has the co-owner asked (in writing)? Does the co-owner also want to keep the flats? Has the co-owner requested a Statement of Account?

There seems to be something missing from this story and until we get the full picture, I'm finding it hard to advise other than to suggest you speak to a solicitor to get hold of the information that the bank seems to be withholding.

From the paperwork I have the loan was taken out in 2007 March, it looks like the loan was only for 3 years and had to be paid back then or renegotiated , but they don't have this paper work,the bank was writing to me all the time until I got my M.P. and the police involved,they now seem to be going for the easy target.Yes the co owner want's to keep the flat's as its all he's got left because of the recession.The bank closed the account in August of this year.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

From the paperwork I have the loan was taken out in 2007 March, it looks like the loan was only for 3 years and had to be paid back then or renegotiated , but they don't have this paper work,the bank was writing to me all the time until I got my M.P. and the police involved,they now seem to be going for the easy target.Yes the co owner want's to keep the flat's as its all he's got left because of the recession.The bank closed the account in August of this year.

Have you actually written to ask why they are looking to repossess?

Why did you involve your MP and the police?.....

What exacly is the co-owner doing to keep hold of the flats?

Did the bank close the account because they were asked to, because it defaulted or because your partner passed away? Whatever the case, upon what authority did they then transfer this joint account (if we're talking about the same one) over to the co-owner?

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Have you actually written to ask why they are looking to repossess?

Why did you involve your MP and the police?.....

What exacly is the co-owner doing to keep hold of the flats?

Did the bank close the account because they were asked to, because it defaulted or because your partner passed away? Whatever the case, upon what authority did they then transfer this joint account (if we're talking about the same one) over to the co-owner?

They are looking to reposses because i would not except an offer they made to me, they wanted me to give them 155,000.00 pounds towards the loan and charge me 3,000,00 arrangement fee for a new loan.

I got my M.P. involved because they forged the loan agreements after i told them that my wife was terminally ill,they tried to reconstruct the original loan agreement but they made a hash of it and copy and pasted the signatures onto a similar agreement, the police have told me that the documents that they gave me are forgey's but the police will not act until a loss is made.

The co owner can hardly write, he leaves everything to me to see if i can get a resolution i am quite happy to do all the work.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

They are looking to reposses because i would not except an offer they made to me, they wanted me to give them 155,000.00 pounds towards the loan and charge me 3,000,00 arrangement fee for a new loan.

I got my M.P. involved because they forged the loan agreements after i told them that my wife was terminally ill,they tried to reconstruct the original loan agreement but they made a hash of it and copy and pasted the signatures onto a similar agreement, the police have told me that the documents that they gave me are forgey's but the police will not act until a loss is made.

The co owner can hardly write, he leaves everything to me to see if i can get a resolution i am quite happy to do all the work.

This is a mess.... and unfortunately, you are telling me things in dribs and drabs which makes it very difficult to get a complete picture.

I appreciate what you're saying about the co-owner but he must accept some responsibility for this because the documents you need are in his name. The easiest way around this would be for him to send a SAR himself because that way, the bank will have no reason not to respond to it.

If he is agreeable to this, then he will need to stipulate precisely which documents he/you're after as part of the SAR. We can help you to tweak the SAR providing you can provide a complete list of all the discrepancies to date, list specific documents you need along with specific questions you want addressed by way of documentation.

If they then fail to adhere to your request, you can then put in an official complaint which they will need to investigate.

Seeing as they want to repossess, i'm assuming that the co-owner is not making any/sufficient payments in which case, they may well have already defaulted the loan.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

it is confusing as things/events are being added, but that is the way some of us work, we remember certain areas of incidents after we put to paper, therefore it is hoped that the full picture/facts are soon listed, the co-owner in this case has to come off the fence as I see it and co-operate with information and this SAR needs to go off PDQ?

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

This is a mess.... and unfortunately, you are telling me things in dribs and drabs which makes it very difficult to get a complete picture.

I appreciate what you're saying about the co-owner but he must accept some responsibility for this because the documents you need are in his name. The easiest way around this would be for him to send a SAR himself because that way, the bank will have no reason not to respond to it.

If he is agreeable to this, then he will need to stipulate precisely which documents he/you're after as part of the SAR. We can help you to tweak the SAR providing you can provide a complete list of all the discrepancies to date, list specific documents you need along with specific questions you want addressed by way of documentation.

If they then fail to adhere to your request, you can then put in an official complaint which they will need to investigate.

Seeing as they want to repossess, i'm assuming that the co-owner is not making any/sufficient payments in which case, they may well have already defaulted the loan.

We have the subject access request from the bank,it does not contain a loan agreement,in fact there are 2 letters from the bank stating they do not have the loan agreement.

Again all payments are being paid this account has not been defaulted.

Why can i not put the account into dispute till they come up with a loan agreement.

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Why can i not put the account into dispute till they come up with a loan agreement.

...because it's a secured debt of £155K.

Why are they re-possessing if all payments are up to date?

[LooLoo]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Just a quick question streewise - did you have a solicitor handle the probate for the will?

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

...because it's a secured debt of £155K.

Why are they re-possessing if all payments are up to date?

The debt is not 155K its 272K,the loan was taken out in March 2007,it was due to be paid in March 2010 or renegoiated from what I can see in the paperwork I have,in January 2012 they asked me to pay 155K of the loan, and set up a new loan for the balance they wanted to charge me 3K to do this, because they don't have a loan agreement i said no but have continued to make the loan payments as they were since 2007.Why can you not dispute a secured loan i must be missing something.