Death of partner and debt.

[alangee]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Sx

The customer is/was the partnership, so it would be in the singular.

Alan

[alangee]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Niddy, P1

In more than one letter, the bank has admitted that it does not have an agreement, so what has it based the recon on? The bank has also copy and pasted the two partners signatures onto this "recon", which is why Streetwise is calling it a forgery.

SW

You say that the original loan was taken out in 2007 and was supposed to have been repaid in 2010. Was your wife/partner still alive when the loan expired? If so, was there any indication from the bank then that they wanted it repaid?

Do you have a copy of the original agreement, or are you basing the facts as you know them on various bits of correspondence? How accurate was their recon? Were there any major differences between the original and the recon?

Are you sure that no default has been entered against the former business partnership, because failing to repay the loan or coming to another agreement after the three years, could have resulted in a default being entered on the business?


Alan

[PriorityOne]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Niddy, P1

In more than one letter, the bank has admitted that it does not have an agreement, so what has it based the recon on?

That's one of the things I would be asking; in writing and via a solicitor.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Niddy, P1

In more than one letter, the bank has admitted that it does not have an agreement, so what has it based the recon on?

Other resources...

So in essence if they knew the interest rate and amounts and other relevant info (that create the PT's) and can prove they had it on a computer record or a similar customer from that time then they can create a recon - the recon does not need to be a mirror of the original, it ONLY has to contain the same information by way of content and form. So if there was no cancellation rights, they couldn't add one to a recon as that would falsify their claim that the agreement is in fact a recon of the original, which is what the Carey judgment stated was acceptable...

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Niddy, P1

In more than one letter, the bank has admitted that it does not have an agreement, so what has it based the recon on? The bank has also copy and pasted the two partners signatures onto this "recon", which is why Streetwise is calling it a forgery.

SW

You say that the original loan was taken out in 2007 and was supposed to have been repaid in 2010. Was your wife/partner still alive when the loan expired? If so, was there any indication from the bank then that they wanted it repaid?

Do you have a copy of the original agreement, or are you basing the facts as you know them on various bits of correspondence? How accurate was their recon? Were there any major differences between the original and the recon?

Are you sure that no default has been entered against the former business partnership, because failing to repay the loan or coming to another agreement after the three years, could have resulted in a default being entered on the business?


Alan

Hello Alan,and thanks for the reply.

I do have an agreement but whether its an original or not I can't say because the bank don't have an agreement,it was in my wife's folder along with all the other letters she had from the bank about the loan.

There has never been a default notice issued to my wife or the partner all mail come's to my address,there has now been a Formal demand though.

My wife was still alive when the loan was to be renegotiated and was still able to deal with her affairs as was the partner.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

That's one of the things I would be asking; in writing and via a solicitor.

I am waiting for Andrew to respond from Paul's office.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Other resources...

So in essence if they knew the interest rate and amounts and other relevant info (that create the PT's) and can prove they had it on a computer record or a similar customer from that time then they can create a recon - the recon does not need to be a mirror of the original, it ONLY has to contain the same information by way of content and form. So if there was no cancellation rights, they couldn't add one to a recon as that would falsify their claim that the agreement is in fact a recon of the original, which is what the Carey judgment stated was acceptable...

The loan if my agreement is correct was to be repaid or renegotiated in March 2010,it never was.I have made all the interest payments since then the loan has never been defaulted on ,every payment date every payment made.

[alangee]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Other resources...

I agree to a certain extent with that, but I would guess that because it is a business/secured loan with, what appears to have specific clauses in it, it cannot necessarily be taken from generic documents.

Streetwise

Were there any clauses specific to the partnership breaking up - for example on the death of one of the partners?

Does the document you have, which is possibly the original agreement, differ wildly from the banks recon?

Are there any "unusual" clauses in what may be the original agreement?

What is there in their recon that caused you to dispute it - apart from the cut and paste signatures?

Alan

[alangee]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Streetwise

One other thing, I assume that the bank that issued the loan was also the partnerships bank. If that is so, the copy and pasted signatures would probably have been taken from the banks records.

That sounds like it should be an offence anyway.

They admit they do not have the original but provide a copy with signatures on. How can that be called a reconstituted agreement? If it has signatures on it, it can only be called a copy of the original - which they admit they do not have!

Does your copy have signatures on it, and if so, are they in the same order - your wifes name before her business partners for example?

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

I agree to a certain extent with that, but I would guess that because it is a business/secured loan with, what appears to have specific clauses in it, it cannot necessarily be taken from generic documents.

Streetwise

Were there any clauses specific to the partnership breaking up - for example on the death of one of the partners?

Does the document you have, which is possibly the original agreement, differ wildly from the banks recon?

Are there any "unusual" clauses in what may be the original agreement?

What is there in their recon that caused you to dispute it - apart from the cut and paste signatures?

Alan

Hi Alan.

There were clauses in the agreement if the partnership split up, but NOT death of partner.

It does not differ widely but the bullet points are all wrong.

It was only the signatures that caused me to dispute it,and what sickened me was that I thought the bank had done it after I told them that my wife was terminally ill,she had always thought that they did not have an agreement,I don't know why, but as I have said before she had been asking for a copy of the agreement for about a year before she became ill,and had said to me on several occasions that she thought they don't have the agreement.

What she was planing next if they didn't have the agreement I don't know, but she was a very intelligent woman.Unlike me.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Streetwise

One other thing, I assume that the bank that issued the loan was also the partnerships bank. If that is so, the copy and pasted signatures would probably have been taken from the banks records.

That sounds like it should be an offence anyway.

They admit they do not have the original but provide a copy with signatures on. How can that be called a reconstituted agreement? If it has signatures on it, it can only be called a copy of the original - which they admit they do not have!

Does your copy have signatures on it, and if so, are they in the same order - your wifes name before her business partners for example?

Alan

Hi Alan,

The signatures and the dates are in the same order,but when you xray them one on top off the other ,the copy the bank supplied signatures are way out of line,it was the date I noticed at first the original if it is, is tight but the banks is spaced out.

[alangee]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Hi SW

I guess you have raised the point about the signatures to the bank, what was their reply?

Alan

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Hi SW

I guess you have raised the point about the signatures to the bank, what was their reply?

Alan

They said verbally,(We are aloud to reconstitute agreements).

[SXGuy]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

Streetwise

One other thing, I assume that the bank that issued the loan was also the partnerships bank. If that is so, the copy and pasted signatures would probably have been taken from the banks records.

That sounds like it should be an offence anyway.

They admit they do not have the original but provide a copy with signatures on. How can that be called a reconstituted agreement? If it has signatures on it, it can only be called a copy of the original - which they admit they do not have!

But they arnt claiming its an original though so whether it has a signature is irrelevant on my opinion, as they say its a recon.

Its not an offence i dont think, its just a point of conjecture should they say its an original. Everyone here always say, sign digitally for a reason.

[Streetwise]

Re: Death of partner and debt.

But they arnt claiming its an original though so whether it has a signature is irrelevant on my opinion, as they say its a recon.

Its not an offence i dont think, its just a point of conjecture should they say its an original. Everyone here always say, sign digitally for a reason.

Hi SX,

The bank manager is claiming its original,he has stamped it ( this is a true certified copy of an original agreement )and signed it.

He should this to his head office and they wrote and told me they don't have the agreement,what am I supposed to think.

Either they have got an agreement or not, there might actually be another agreement somewhere.

As Executor of the Estate its my job to payout all Bona Fide Debts.