So far so good...but

[cardiac arrest]

After a 5 year battle over charges and interest applied to my credit card, the Bank has finally admitted it didn't provide the support it should have and have refunded over £1,000. Well, seeing as I defaulted on the CC and the bank sold it off to a DCA, the refund is going against the outstanding balance...but it's still very good news...

In tandem to this are issues with the DCA too, but that is another thread. However I still have an issue with the OC (The Bank) about compensation.

And this is where I could do with some advice/help/guidance.

Shocked as I was that my 5 year battle was suddenly won, I wondered if my stirring up with CCA requests had unsettled the OC in some way, for them to pay up everything I asked for...and they even sent me a cheque for £100 in compensation.(more later)..

I know I've rattled their cages and I do have a defective DN to hand plus they are struggling to find a compliant Agreement, never mind T&Cs...so maybe the sudden about turn, and £100 was a way of getting me off the trail ?

Not so. Anyway, back to the compensation. I wrote back and said I thought £100 was derisory for 5 years of grief, but particularly the added stress they gave me when I was struggling back in 2006/7, when I really didn't need what they did to me..I needed support.

A reply came back with another cheque...this time £50...and basically that's the end of mate, now clear off.

As a slight aside this complaint is sat on the desk of the FOS awaiting adjudication...but I'm not sure if they deal with compensation ?

So, while I'm pleased at the refund..I'm still aggrieved at how I was treated, and £150 to me doesn't even touch the surface.

I am looking for opinions, advice and direction if possible ?

[di30]

Re: So far so good...but

You have then right to complain about the poor service given, as you also have the right to be treated fairly.
If the cheque they sent was automatic (where you did not have to sign an acceptance form) and their letter states if the final decision, despite them enclosing a cheque, with also enclosing details of the FOS you can still complain further to them.

The fact that it was not an offer as such, and it was automatic, maybe you believe that still was not enough compensation for what you have been through.

You need to express everything to the FOS, the costs, for eg, stationary, postage, your time etc and the stress it caused you for all this time.

I'm sure someone will come up with other ideas here for you, but I note you said that even though you feel its still good news, that the debt was sold on to a DCA, so the refund was used to help reduce the balance.

It appears then that despite the debt being sold on, that they still take the money then?

There is a thread on here somewhere, that once a debt has been sold on, and no longer in the hands of the bank/business, then any refund should be awarded to you.
Have you got a letter from when they first moved the debt on from both the business and the DCA?
This will confirm if the DCA has taken over all liabilities of your account?

Cheers.

[di30]

Re: So far so good...but

Also have a read on this thread here....

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7985

[MattyA]

Re: So far so good...but

I feel for you Cardiac - having been there with many of my arguments, but be it right or wrong , sometimes you just gotta draw a line under it and move on.

You have had a result and could argue on forever and a day - but will it get you anywhere........probably not.

It will however cause you more stress.

Take what you can from this and move on.

WELL DONE! - Most dont fight as long as you have!!

Matty

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

Also have a read on this thread here....

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7985

Thanks for this. I did complain to the bank after Niddy told me what he has also said in the above link, but the bank came back with 'we have retained the right to buy back part or all of this account from the DCA and the refund will be offset against the outstanding balance".

As far as the situation about claiming UE on the one hand, and pursuing a refund on the other,my viewpoint is this .... I CCA'd the bank as well as the DCA when fishing around to see who owned the debt, as I didn't know at that point...the bank never responded and forwarded the CCA to the DCA..so they had washed their hands of it. Since then I got a copy of the assignment, which I'm told by others is an absolute one. SO now the bank and the DCA are totally separate organisations, not linked in any way..so I don't see any problem with chasing up charges with one, and highlighting UE with the other. It wasn't me that sold it off, or even gave my permission. lol

It also wasn't me who flunked the paperwork.

As part of my FOS complaint I've copied all subsequent letters which includes my further complaint about this method of passing the refund to the DCA account...so I'll see what they say about it, whenever they deal with this.

The ideal scenario for me would have been to receive the refund, then I could have squeezed the DCA into a UE corner, and waited for a F&F..using the refund to negotiate with...that maybe sounds cute, which I think it is, though I realise it's probably going to be fairyland.

Anyway, as I stated, it seems the o/s balance will be reduced..and considering I never paid the charges I claimed a refund for, because I defaulted, then I can perhaps see the logic of not giving me cash for it...but it was worth a try ...

As far as compensation, well that IS money. But how and who evaluates what happens...when it's not material but psychological..

I have given the FOS a full run down, but I wasn't sure they would deal with the compo side of things ?

The cheques which arrived did not require any signing for, nor did they say they were conditional payments in any way.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

I feel for you Cardiac - having been there with many of my arguments, but be it right or wrong , sometimes you just gotta draw a line under it and move on.

You have had a result and could argue on forever and a day - but will it get you anywhere........probably not.

It will however cause you more stress.

Take what you can from this and move on.

WELL DONE! - Most dont fight as long as you have!!

Matty

Cheers Matty, and I understand what you are saying about 'letting it go'. I'll see where the FOS goes with it and decide from there I guess.

[di30]

Re: So far so good...but

Thanks for this. I did complain to the bank after Niddy told me what he has also said in the above link, but the bank came back with 'we have retained the right to buy back part or all of this account from the DCA and the refund will be offset against the outstanding balance".

As far as the situation about claiming UE on the one hand, and pursuing a refund on the other,my viewpoint is this .... I CCA'd the bank as well as the DCA when fishing around to see who owned the debt, as I didn't know at that point...the bank never responded and forwarded the CCA to the DCA..so they had washed their hands of it. Since then I got a copy of the assignment, which I'm told by others is an absolute one. SO now the bank and the DCA are totally separate organisations, not linked in any way..so I don't see any problem with chasing up charges with one, and highlighting UE with the other. It wasn't me that sold it off, or even gave my permission. lol

It also wasn't me who flunked the paperwork.

As part of my FOS complaint I've copied all subsequent letters which includes my further complaint about this method of passing the refund to the DCA account...so I'll see what they say about it, whenever they deal with this.

The ideal scenario for me would have been to receive the refund, then I could have squeezed the DCA into a UE corner, and waited for a F&F..using the refund to negotiate with...that maybe sounds cute, which I think it is, though I realise it's probably going to be fairyland.

Anyway, as I stated, it seems the o/s balance will be reduced..and considering I never paid the charges I claimed a refund for, because I defaulted, then I can perhaps see the logic of not giving me cash for it...but it was worth a try ...

As far as compensation, well that IS money. But how and who evaluates what happens...when it's not material but psychological..

I have given the FOS a full run down, but I wasn't sure they would deal with the compo side of things ?

The cheques which arrived did not require any signing for, nor did they say they were conditional payments in any way.

Hiya

They seem to have a law of their own don't they? (banks etc)

As far as I'm aware anything financial you can complain about, afterall the amount of time the matter has taken, the business not treating you fairly etc......

I think it's worth a shot, as they may feel you deserve to have more, if the matter made you ill as well, as long as the FOS know everything, then I'm sure they will consider all points you forwarded to them.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

Just as an aside...I was wondering what the DCA's attitude would be to having the account cut by £1,100 ? presumably the price they paid the OC reflected the 'value'.

Maybe this transaction with the bank will include a refund for what they paid, and then a discount to buy it back again at a reduced value ?

And while my head is with this...any accountants out there who can figure what the banks accounting will be for this transaction, which they have already written off...it isn't a cash transaction is it ?

anyway...enough...I can rabbit it on a bit sometimes

[ken100464]

Re: So far so good...but

Doubt it will bother them tbh.

They will have paid 10-15% for it tops. Even with the rebate (which I am not sure the bank are actually gonna pay) they are still quids in and more.

There will be no buy back refund or nothing. The OC will just say reduce the balance to the DCA. If you dont do as we say then dont come here tendering for anymore debt sales as you are not wanted. DCA then gets blacklisted. It wouldnt do that for a grand.

The debt writedown as far as I understood it is used against profits therefore less tax to pay. Think tax evasion but legal

This is why we are all gutted for you. The banks dont lose and when you realise the more active DCA's are owned or supported by the banks through vast loans then you start to see how incestous this industry is.

RBS just gave Marlin 80million quid so Marlin can buy up more distressed debt and mither us. In return RBS can tell the government its lending lots of dosh out.

But who too. Its mates who pay it back hansomely in interest and also take its rubbish debts on.

Barmey? Yep totally.

[cymruambyth]

Re: So far so good...but

You could wait a couple of weeks then send a SAR to the DCA to see if £1,000 has been taken off your account.

When I first started this journey I complained to the ICO about Barclaycard failing to supply CCA as part of my SAR and my £75 compensation was paid to 1st Credit who had been assigned the account. They have tried to tell me that it was a payment by me but that is a battle I will happily fight in 2014 when it becomes SB, if they try to play games again!!!!

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

When I submitted my claim against the Bank for a refund if the interest and fees, because it goes back so many years I applied statutory interest to the figures, which came to £470. The bank rejected this part of my claim though as they said they had refunded the interest and statutory interest didn't apply because I had only been paying £1 pm of the balance. I thought, well yes fair enough...if I had actually paid off the interest and fees and lost out on what I could have done with that cash it would have been different, but I never paid it..maybe it was a bit cheeky of me to claim, but then I thought well maybe they will be able to pay the rest and deduct the stat interest and are more likely to agree...sort of saving face a bit....

I'm okay with that...just the compensation.

Do you think I should write back to the Bank anyway and actually say I reject the derisory compensation, highlight again the grief they gave me etc...just to let them know I have not accepted £150...or just leave it with the FOS ? It might take another 12 months for the FOS to rule on this so I don't want anyone to 'assume' I've accepted the compensation as being adequate...just in case ?

[di30]

Re: So far so good...but

When I submitted my claim against the Bank for a refund if the interest and fees, because it goes back so many years I applied statutory interest to the figures, which came to £470. The bank rejected this part of my claim though as they said they had refunded the interest and statutory interest didn't apply because I had only been paying £1 pm of the balance. I thought, well yes fair enough...if I had actually paid off the interest and fees and lost out on what I could have done with that cash it would have been different, but I never paid it..maybe it was a bit cheeky of me to claim, but then I thought well maybe they will be able to pay the rest and deduct the stat interest and are more likely to agree...sort of saving face a bit....

I'm okay with that...just the compensation.

Do you think I should write back to the Bank anyway and actually say I reject the derisory compensation, highlight again the grief they gave me etc...just to let them know I have not accepted £150...or just leave it with the FOS ? It might take another 12 months for the FOS to rule on this so I don't want anyone to 'assume' I've accepted the compensation as being adequate...just in case ?

No harm if you do write to them, the worse they can say is that "a final decision was previously given, and now take it up with the FOS".
Hopefully they will consider more for you, but another thing you could do is ask your local MP to write on your behalf, many have had a good outcome by doing it this way.
It's entirely up to you though, you must do what you feel is best to do for you.
You want to ask is there a possibility of them taking the offer higher because.........................(your reasons).


Anyway, going back to the above post, I have been researching further, did the DCA take over every liability of the bank?

Across the road (another site) where someone was dealing with Barclaycard, they had sold the debt in full to Cabot Financial (I have been researching for another mate as well you see), and the full refund was paid directly to the customer.

Apparantely, as the bank are no longer involved but yet it was them who mis sold the insurance, they cut ties with the account, so there is no right of the company who purchased the account of setting off, if this did happen you can take it up with the lender.

However, it is nice to reduce the debt, but it seems that they do what they want to do.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

Thanks for that Di. I do believe the assignment to the DCA was absolute...although no one has used this term as such. I have asked several times but in the end HBOS sent me a 'recreation' of the assignment letter which included the following..."..HBOS has assigned all of its respective rights, title and interest in respect of the above account to .....and they are the data controller of your personal data". When Flowerpower read this she said it looked like an absolute assignment.

On reflection though, HBOS have retained an interest because they have stated they have retained a right to buy back part or all of the account. So it can't be both can it ?

I might include this question in my reply to HBOS (Sainsbury's).

Another thought....seeing as HBOS do not want to part with any cash, I might suggest that if they are reluctant to consider compensation then I might suggest that if they deduct a further £6,900 from the account, i.e. the full remaining balance,..then I might consider that acceptable compensation and will ask the FOS to drop their investigation ?

This wouldn't cost HBOS anything, well maybe a refund to the DCA for what they paid, as they have already written off the full amount when they sold it off.

What do you think ? I could wrap that up within a statement laying on the stress they caused, their admission of fault and the total rejection of their derisory offer...

At least it shows I've tried to negotiate.....

[di30]

Re: So far so good...but

Thanks for that Di. I do believe the assignment to the DCA was absolute...although no one has used this term as such. I have asked several times but in the end HBOS sent me a 'recreation' of the assignment letter which included the following..."..HBOS has assigned all of its respective rights, title and interest in respect of the above account to .....and they are the data controller of your personal data". When Flowerpower read this she said it looked like an absolute assignment.

On reflection though, HBOS have retained an interest because they have stated they have retained a right to buy back part or all of the account. So it can't be both can it ?

I might include this question in my reply to HBOS (Sainsbury's).

Another thought....seeing as HBOS do not want to part with any cash, I might suggest that if they are reluctant to consider compensation then I might suggest that if they deduct a further £6,900 from the account, i.e. the full remaining balance,..then I might consider that acceptable compensation and will ask the FOS to drop their investigation ?

This wouldn't cost HBOS anything, well maybe a refund to the DCA for what they paid, as they have already written off the full amount when they sold it off.

What do you think ? I could wrap that up within a statement laying on the stress they caused, their admission of fault and the total rejection of their derisory offer...

At least it shows I've tried to negotiate.....

Hi

I find these matters confusing myself, because from what I understand is that is its with the banks collections dept, they do have a right, but if the debt was sold over and fully assigned to a new organisation as Niddy says, the refund should be nothing to do with them, but as said, they all seem to have a law of their own.

Yes that is actually a good idea, it is an option that they may possibly consider. And as you said, it's not costing them a penny, and you are trying to negotiate on the matter.
And yes to include the stress etc.....

Feel free to wait for other opinions on this as well.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: So far so good...but

Thanks Di...

i might try and cobble something up over the weekend when i've had time to think it through...give myself time to think about it.