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Hi All
Just when you think you're getting there another surprise appears from the woodwork!
My wife received the attached letter yesterday. I have been responding to it (see email trail below) but wouldn't mind some feedback, further insight etc on my approach.
Thanks in advance
SnV
So after receiving that letter this is the email sent to the DCA:
Dear Mr DCA
Thank you for your letter regards an alleged debt with xxxx.
Please note that I conduct all communication in writing (email is not acceptable) and the unprofessional letter you have sent does not even state a postal address to which correspondance can be sent and request that you provide such.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to xxxx and request that you provide evidence of this debt and also proof that you are acting on their behalf as we have had no such notice or communication from them.
Please note I am very familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it is:
"Unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question", and also states that it is
"Unfair to falsely imply or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot, for example, referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings"
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods. Furthermore ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical & psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question and await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed.
Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
DCA's response:
Hi, When will you be making payment ?
My response:
Dear DCA
As per my email below I have no knowledge of any debt owing to 'xxxx' and so consequently will be making no payment of any sort until such a debt is proven.
If you are a legitimate company I would respectfully ask you to consider things from my perspective:
1) I have no knowledge of any debt owing to 'xxxx' and have not received any correspondance/invoices/bills from them
2) The first time I am made aware of this 'debt' is via letter from you
3) This letter is poorly printed on unheaded A4 paper of poor quality
4) This letter contains no postal address but only a website (which can be easily set up) and a mobile telephone number to contact you on
At best this looks like some sort of internet scam.
If you are a legitimate company then you should have no difficulty in agreeing to my reasonable request and provide a postal address to send correspondance and provide proof of the alleged debt.
Should this then be proven to be an error or oversight on my part then, and only then, will I discuss making a payment.
If you continue to pursue this matter without agreeing to my reasonable request then I will as stated below report this matter to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards and even consider reporting this to the police as an act of fraud.
Yours faithfully
DCA's response:
Dear Mr SaltnVinegar,
Re the points you have raised
a)The debt as you know full well, relates to xxxx a pregnant cat that was brought in and a ceasarian was performed.
b) Its not the first time you have been made of this messages have been left for you and bills sent
c) The letter was sent on standard paper but this Is irrelevant anyway !.
d) The website contains both landline and mobile numbers. You obviously have xxxx address as you found your way there.
e) Its obviously not an internet scam as a letter was sent and you have visited us internet contact was made by you to us not vice versa.
f) Proof of the debt has now been provided and you have the address as xxxx (vets address)
If Payment of the ?305.00 is not made within the remaining time a county court claim will be issued and the appropriate enforcement route taken upon obtaining judgement.
We are a reputable company and work closely within legal frameworks
My response:
Dear Mr DCA
If you are a legitimate and reputable company acting on behalf of a client, your refusal to provide your company postal address is completely unreasonable.
It is your company that is threatening action on behalf of your client, and consequently any written correspondance should go through you.
As already stated - I have received no bills or other messages on this matter, your letter is the first time I have heard of this alleged debt and I would request that you provide evidence of these bills and when messages 'were left'.
Your letter, which as you should know threatens enforcement routes some of which are not legally possible, ONLY contains a website address, email address and mobile phone number to contact you.
With the proliferation of identity scams I would be foolish to ring a mobile telephone number I have no knowledge of and discuss personal matters, and so have no other choice but initiate contact via this email address.
Your assertion that this is obviously not an internet scam because I have had to initiate contact via email is incorrect. Scammers frequently send emails, or letters, with content which is intented to initiate a response and contact.
It is not unreasonable to ask you to provide proof that a debt exists, and your email below, does not constitute proof.
I will repeat my reasonable request that at the very least, you, or your client, provide a bill or invoice as evidence a debt exists. Should such a debt exist then I will discuss payment at that point.
If you are a reputable company, and issue a county court claim, you will have to provide evidence that a debt exists.
Your refusal to provide such evidence to me that a debt exists, despite my reasonable request, and the opportunity to then remedy the matter, and your initial letter (and its contents) would then be brought to the courts attention.
I trust that this won't be necessary by the simple action on your part of providing a bill or invoice and consequently proof of such debt.
Regards
DCA's response:
Dear sir/madam
I see once again you are discussing everything here apart from the central issue ?that money is owed.
A bill has been provided to you and copies sent. And ?chasing phone calls made.
Court action will be initiated on non payment and if you read the letter properly you will see it says enforcement MAY occur .
The appropriate route will be taken depending on your circumstances.
End of correspondence
And my response to this:
Dear Mr DCA
Your statement is untrue, I have stated clearly that if you provide a bill or invoice that proves money is owed I will discuss payment.
I will repeat - I have received no bills or invoices and if chasing phone calls have been made you should be able to provide evidence as to that date/time these were made. In 5 emails you have not been able to produce any evidence of debt (you cannot it would seem even scan a copy of a bill or invoice which you should be in possession of if a debt exists).
Without such your letter/emails amount to demanding money with menaces and I consider your behaviour harrassment.
You have done nothing to establish either:
a) I am the debtor in question
b) Provide proof that money is owed
Both of which, as you should be aware, put you in breach of the OFT guidelines on Fair Business Practices on Debt Collection. As does stating that enforcement MAY occur when it simply cannot.
As I have already stated should you initiate Court Action this will be vigourously defended due to your refusal to prove a debt exists. Your inital letter and these emails will be submitted as evidence that you have refused to respond to this reasonable request.
You can avoid this action by simply providing either a bill or invoice as proof of a debt.
Regards
Just when you think you're getting there another surprise appears from the woodwork!
My wife received the attached letter yesterday. I have been responding to it (see email trail below) but wouldn't mind some feedback, further insight etc on my approach.
Thanks in advance
SnV
So after receiving that letter this is the email sent to the DCA:
Dear Mr DCA
Thank you for your letter regards an alleged debt with xxxx.
Please note that I conduct all communication in writing (email is not acceptable) and the unprofessional letter you have sent does not even state a postal address to which correspondance can be sent and request that you provide such.
I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to xxxx and request that you provide evidence of this debt and also proof that you are acting on their behalf as we have had no such notice or communication from them.
Please note I am very familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it is:
"Unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question", and also states that it is
"Unfair to falsely imply or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot, for example, referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings"
I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods. Furthermore ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical & psychological harassment.
I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question and await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed.
Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours faithfully
DCA's response:
Hi, When will you be making payment ?
My response:
Dear DCA
As per my email below I have no knowledge of any debt owing to 'xxxx' and so consequently will be making no payment of any sort until such a debt is proven.
If you are a legitimate company I would respectfully ask you to consider things from my perspective:
1) I have no knowledge of any debt owing to 'xxxx' and have not received any correspondance/invoices/bills from them
2) The first time I am made aware of this 'debt' is via letter from you
3) This letter is poorly printed on unheaded A4 paper of poor quality
4) This letter contains no postal address but only a website (which can be easily set up) and a mobile telephone number to contact you on
At best this looks like some sort of internet scam.
If you are a legitimate company then you should have no difficulty in agreeing to my reasonable request and provide a postal address to send correspondance and provide proof of the alleged debt.
Should this then be proven to be an error or oversight on my part then, and only then, will I discuss making a payment.
If you continue to pursue this matter without agreeing to my reasonable request then I will as stated below report this matter to the Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards and even consider reporting this to the police as an act of fraud.
Yours faithfully
DCA's response:
Dear Mr SaltnVinegar,
Re the points you have raised
a)The debt as you know full well, relates to xxxx a pregnant cat that was brought in and a ceasarian was performed.
b) Its not the first time you have been made of this messages have been left for you and bills sent
c) The letter was sent on standard paper but this Is irrelevant anyway !.
d) The website contains both landline and mobile numbers. You obviously have xxxx address as you found your way there.
e) Its obviously not an internet scam as a letter was sent and you have visited us internet contact was made by you to us not vice versa.
f) Proof of the debt has now been provided and you have the address as xxxx (vets address)
If Payment of the ?305.00 is not made within the remaining time a county court claim will be issued and the appropriate enforcement route taken upon obtaining judgement.
We are a reputable company and work closely within legal frameworks
My response:
Dear Mr DCA
If you are a legitimate and reputable company acting on behalf of a client, your refusal to provide your company postal address is completely unreasonable.
It is your company that is threatening action on behalf of your client, and consequently any written correspondance should go through you.
As already stated - I have received no bills or other messages on this matter, your letter is the first time I have heard of this alleged debt and I would request that you provide evidence of these bills and when messages 'were left'.
Your letter, which as you should know threatens enforcement routes some of which are not legally possible, ONLY contains a website address, email address and mobile phone number to contact you.
With the proliferation of identity scams I would be foolish to ring a mobile telephone number I have no knowledge of and discuss personal matters, and so have no other choice but initiate contact via this email address.
Your assertion that this is obviously not an internet scam because I have had to initiate contact via email is incorrect. Scammers frequently send emails, or letters, with content which is intented to initiate a response and contact.
It is not unreasonable to ask you to provide proof that a debt exists, and your email below, does not constitute proof.
I will repeat my reasonable request that at the very least, you, or your client, provide a bill or invoice as evidence a debt exists. Should such a debt exist then I will discuss payment at that point.
If you are a reputable company, and issue a county court claim, you will have to provide evidence that a debt exists.
Your refusal to provide such evidence to me that a debt exists, despite my reasonable request, and the opportunity to then remedy the matter, and your initial letter (and its contents) would then be brought to the courts attention.
I trust that this won't be necessary by the simple action on your part of providing a bill or invoice and consequently proof of such debt.
Regards
DCA's response:
Dear sir/madam
I see once again you are discussing everything here apart from the central issue ?that money is owed.
A bill has been provided to you and copies sent. And ?chasing phone calls made.
Court action will be initiated on non payment and if you read the letter properly you will see it says enforcement MAY occur .
The appropriate route will be taken depending on your circumstances.
End of correspondence
And my response to this:
Dear Mr DCA
Your statement is untrue, I have stated clearly that if you provide a bill or invoice that proves money is owed I will discuss payment.
I will repeat - I have received no bills or invoices and if chasing phone calls have been made you should be able to provide evidence as to that date/time these were made. In 5 emails you have not been able to produce any evidence of debt (you cannot it would seem even scan a copy of a bill or invoice which you should be in possession of if a debt exists).
Without such your letter/emails amount to demanding money with menaces and I consider your behaviour harrassment.
You have done nothing to establish either:
a) I am the debtor in question
b) Provide proof that money is owed
Both of which, as you should be aware, put you in breach of the OFT guidelines on Fair Business Practices on Debt Collection. As does stating that enforcement MAY occur when it simply cannot.
As I have already stated should you initiate Court Action this will be vigourously defended due to your refusal to prove a debt exists. Your inital letter and these emails will be submitted as evidence that you have refused to respond to this reasonable request.
You can avoid this action by simply providing either a bill or invoice as proof of a debt.
Regards
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