Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

[churchman]

Hi Friends, newbie here so apologies for any inexperienced errors. Have an old MBNA debt that has been with EC for some years. Have been making regular monthly payments.

EC were hassling heavily by telephone and had a flurry of unwarranted default notices. I wrote several times to have them removed - these letters were ignored.

I then wrote requested immediate cessation of telephone attempts and quoted relevant authorities. Phone calls ceased but I have received several letters asking me to send a signed letter "confirming my change of address" - which is strange as I haven't moved for some time.

Is this a ruse to obtain a clean signature for a Carey?

Many thanks in advance.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I'd just ignore it. You do not need to sign anything.

And don't!!

[SXGuy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Dont sign anything!

Some of these twats think its a data protection issue, when its clearly not as they have been happy to corrispond with you up to the point of the letter, so in my eyes they have already missed that boat.

It could be an attempt to lift your sig on to a recon, no one would know unless you did it.

Everyone here would say sign digitaly, i.e with a type font on any letters you send.

That way any lifting could be easily argued by proving its a type font and not a real sig.

Put it this way, if they were unsure you are who you say you are, a) would they accept money from you, and b) would they be writing to you? prob not.

I am currently in this battle with NatWest, strangly one of the accounts i sucessfuly argued the case and they had to admit no CCA, but the other just keeps sending the same template asking for a sig, so i wouldnt be suprised if they are trying to recon it, but because i have AAD on my side, that will never happen

[mgfboy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Dont sign anything!

Some of these twats think its a data protection issue, when its clearly not as they have been happy to corrispond with you up to the point of the letter, so in my eyes they have already missed that boat.

It could be an attempt to lift your sig on to a recon, no one would know unless you did it.

Everyone here would say sign digitaly, i.e with a type font on any letters you send.

That way any lifting could be easily argued by proving its a type font and not a real sig.

Put it this way, if they were unsure you are who you say you are, a) would they accept money from you, and b) would they be writing to you? prob not.

I am currently in this battle with NatWest, strangly one of the accounts i sucessfuly argued the case and they had to admit no CCA, but the other just keeps sending the same template asking for a sig, so i wouldnt be suprised if they are trying to recon it, but because i have AAD on my side, that will never happen

I think we should all sign the docs now by hand , but in something that is nothing like or normal sig. It would be interesting to see how many appear in recon's

[vossy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I am now using the AAD anti tamper sig strip, I have done A signature (not my own) and saved it to my computer, now I just insert it into any letters I send.

Take the advice from here! The official line is "tell em bollox"!

[nightwatch]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

This is the anti-tamper strip, although some are reluctant to use it, preferring to take the "Why should I sign when you know damn well who I am" stance.

I am one of the why should I club, every other CCA request( and there were a lot) has been delt with without my signiture.
there is only Lombard/natwest that keep sending them back, they have just returned a copy of the Sold in Dispute letter I sent to Triton, with a post-it on saying they have kept the fee but require a signiture ???

[SXGuy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I am one of the why should I club, every other CCA request( and there were a lot) has been delt with without my signiture.
there is only Lombard/natwest that keep sending them back, they have just returned a copy of the Sold in Dispute letter I sent to Triton, with a post-it on saying they have kept the fee but require a signiture ???

I had two natwest accounts, 1 kept the PO the other sent it back, both sent back the letters with no sig written on them, and sent their template letter requesting a signature.

The account that they kept the PO for, eventually admitted no CCA when i sent triton the sold in dispute letter.

However, the other account just keeps going back and forth with need signature, so they obviously never follow the same procedure.

My personal view is, they are in default until they send a CCA or admit they dont have one, asking for a sig which has no relevance to a CCA request does not remove their duties under CCA1974, and thus, they are actually helping to keep the account unenforcable.

Thats my take on it. And if they wish to play letter tennis for a while fine, we have offered them other forms of id to prove who we are, they ignore it.

So personally, if it ever went to court, it wouldnt be hard to prove that they are in default, and their claim that they need a sig is unfounded.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Don't get carried away guys. I say don't sign for a reason. That reason is Carey. That allows them to recreate a document in content and form using any disposable methods from the data they have at hand on you. In essence a cut/paste signature "could" satisfy Carey so best is just not to sign and use our templates refusing to.

You do not need to. They know it's you cos they're hassling you to pay at that address. They know it's you cos that's the same address the account started at (possibly) and they know it's you cos they reply asking you to sign. Not asking you for ID.

Yawn

[soldier1]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

I have used different signatures to my normal one in writing to DCAs and I do have copies of the original application form signature from SAR to the original creditors. Not that the usual S77 requests ever produced such copies.

Should any cut and pasting take place from my more recent correspondence to DCAs then this could result in fraud on their part. My passport and driving licence show my normal signature as do those copy application forms referred to above.

If such an event of fraudulent signature reproduction take place then I would inform the City of London Police who handle scams and fraud, how far the Police would take this I do not know. If there were a few of these then they could well take it up as this is a specialism of theirs.

On the matter of tactics, I think I would make it known to DCA that I do hold a copy of the original application before they attempt such an action as cutting and pasting. As most of us do, I do think about tactics and I would not contradict Niddy,s advice but in my case these different signatures of mine took place
some time ago

Finally, it may be an idea for people to SAR the original creditors to see what turns up. Once they have sold the debt on they do not have such a vested interest in
not providing a copy of the original application/agreement.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Should any cut and pasting take place from my more recent correspondence to DCAs then this could result in fraud on their part. My passport and driving licence show my normal signature as do those copy application forms referred to above.

If such an event of fraudulent signature reproduction take place then I would inform the City of London Police who handle scams and fraud, how far the Police would take this I do not know. If there were a few of these then they could well take it up as this is a specialism of theirs.

Carey confirmed it is allowed - if there was anything 'fraudulent' within a copy 'true' original that would not have get missed. It is not fraud, it is recreating a legible copy of the original.

creditors are entitled to produce a reconstituted version of the credit agreement from the information they hold on the debtor. The reconstituted version does not need to include a signature box or indeed the actual signature but must contain the debtor’s name and address at the time it was executed.

The emphasis in the Carey case on section 78 appears to have obscured the real claim that exists under section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act. These sections dictate that a creditor must be able to produce a signed document (not necessarily the credit agreement) that contains the prescribed terms. The document must include the credit limit, the interest rate and details of how and when a debtor is to discharge his payment obligations. A failure to produce such a document is still capable of rendering the agreement irredeemably unenforceable.

I'm not saying I agree with Carey but whilst the facts remain you must be careful and never sign things - follow our processes on our forum and you'll be covered appropriately.

Just saying like...

[SXGuy]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

And like i always say, failure to provide a signature is not an excuse for creditors to opt out of their obligations, which my opinion, means that they help to keep the account UE until they remedy it.

So even if you thought they had an agreement, i wouldnt SAR them for it, id let them keep the line they want your sig, since its all helping that statued barred clock.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

This is an interesting point because I'd read that they didn't need to provide the right address

To satisfy s.78 etc they can provide any address used from content and form of the original or as they have on their records. However if they legalise it then you'll find they'll need to provide you a copy (or at least have one themselves) of the executed version, i.e. with the name and address as at inception.

Remember this is a moot point, it is not enough on its own to classify default of s.78. Its de minimis as far as courts are concerned.... it's s.61(1) and s.127(3) that really matter.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

As history seems to go around & come around:-

I wonder if some of these Judges one day will have their day i.e.

Judge Jeffries (The Hanging Judge) did, He Got Hung Himself for Treason against the people because of his judgment.

As Niddy states:- make use of the letters on the said subject of signature request.

[churchman]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

Thanks all for your very useful comments. I was wondering why they haven't used the cheques that have been sent to them if they wanted my sig, but perhaps the cheque anti-fraud stuff stops them cutting and pasting.

If I have understood correctly, it may well be that their focus on my sig is tacit admission that they don't have an enforceable debt at present?

I feel a CCA or five coming on. Thanks again all.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Experto Writing Requesting Signed Letter

If I have understood correctly, it may well be that their focus on my sig is tacit admission that they don't have an enforceable debt at present?

That is not how I read it.... I would never presume that...