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  • Capital One/Cabot

    Hello there,

    I was reading the forum earlier and came across a very well worded letter on the following page which I wish to adapt and use for my circumstances:

    http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...E-BARRED/page2

    Basically my circumstances are as follows. I had a Capital One credit card several years ago which has defaulted with a balance of £1450 or so. The final payment from me was made 1st October 2008 and since then I have not acknowledged the debt in writing to anyone nor made any further payment. Therefore, I believe the debt to be statute barred.

    The debt collection agency, Cabot, has been sending me letters during this period and recently I received one from their in-house legal team, Mortimer Clarke Solicitors, threatening legal action and giving me 14 days to explain my defence to them or agree a repayment plan. Following receipt of this letter I sent them a statue barred letter effectively telling them that the debt is statute barred.

    I received the following reply from them:

    "Dear Sir/Madam

    Re: Cabot Financial (UK) Limited
    And: XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX

    Ref: XXXXXXXXX

    You have alleged that the claim is statute barred. Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 provides that an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

    The six year limitation period runs from the latest date on which:
    1. A payment was made towards the debt; or
    2. The agreement was terminated; or
    3. You acknowledged the debt in writing.

    We are instructed that in this case the cause of action accrued when the agreement was terminated on 22/03/2009. Therefore the debt is not statute barred and still remains payable. If you disagree please explain why."

    I haven't replied to them since although I did send off a CCA request to Cabot a few days ago. Upon reading your letter on the above link, I now am wondering whether I could send my own letter, more or less telling them the same thing.

    Is point 2 in their letter just made up BS? I believe it to be so.

    I've started to adapt your letter myself, but am stuck on the following paragraph which I have highlighted:

    FORMAL COMPLAINT

    Ref : [xxxxxxxxx]

    Dear Sir,

    I am in receipt of your letter dated [xx] January 2015, and note with extreme concern that you either do not seem to be aware of the legislation governing your own purported business, or are deliberately misquoting it to obfuscate the facts regarding this present situation.

    In the interests of avoiding costly and unnecessary litigation, and of expediting a reasonable conclusion to this matter, I therefore feel obliged to make you aware of the following -

    Limitation Act 1980, Section 5

    I draw your attention to Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980, which states -

    “An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

    This is relevant for two reasons. Firstly, it states the length of time which must elapse before an alleged debt becomes statute barred under this legislation, and, secondly, it gives the determining factor for the starting date of the six year period as the date of the cause of action.

    Your letter of [xx] January 2015 mistakenly asserts the following –
    “The six year limitation period runs from the latest date on which:
    1. A payment was made towards the debt; or
    2. The agreement was terminated; or
    3. You acknowledged the debt in writing.
    We are instructed that in this case the cause of action accrued when the agreement was terminated on 22/03/2009.”


    On the contrary, the date of a default, or its registering with the credit reference agencies, is entirely irrelevant to both the Limitation Act 1980, and the accrual of any cause of action. Indeed, neither defaults nor credit reference agencies are even mentioned in any section of the Limitation Act 1980.

    The six-year limitation clock begins to run from the “date on which the cause of action accrued.” In the case of this account to which you have given the reference [xxxxxxxx], that date would be date of the first missed payment. A payment was made to the account on 1st October 2008. Therefore, as Capital One Bank issues bills on the 30th of the month, the first missed payment would have been for the bill issued on 30th October 2008. Consequently, the date at which this alleged debt became statute barred is 1st November 2014.

    Conclusion


    I assert once again that this alleged debt is statute barred. Consequently, I require -

    * An acknowledgement of the statute barred status of the account reference [xxxxxxxxxx], along with a written notice that this account is now permanently closed on your system
    * An assurance that I will receive no further harassment regarding the aforementioned account,
    * A formal apology for your employees' use of deceit in misrepresenting legislation and attempting to extract money under false pretences
    * An offer of compensation for the unwarranted harassment which has already occurred, and the wastage of my own time in dealing with such harassment; commensurate with the prevailing Litigant in Person rate and therefore not less than the sum of £50

    Any other response, or no response, WILL result in this case being escalated to the relevant regulatory authorities.


    Yours Faithfully,



    Does the same apply in my case, that you are aware, and if so would you have any suggestions for re-wording the highlighted section? They did not mention the word "default" so it's not a straight copy/paste exercise, however I feel the rest of the letter, i.e. not highlighted, would still be relevant and ok as is.

    Sorry to approach you this way and if you wish for me to post this in the forum somewhere I will gladly do so. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.


    ================================================== ================================================== ==================

    The above was sent as a PM to a member here however I have been asked by a moderator to start a thread as others will likely be able to help.

    Any assistance will be greatly appreciated, whether that come from the recipient of the PM or anyone else that would be willing to help .

  • #2
    Re: Capital One/Cabot

    Note: In the PM it looked better, but the underlined part is the part I refer to as "highlighted".

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Capital One/Cabot

      hi hello people and welcome to the best consumer forum out there. Looks like you have done a good job of avoiding the sharks so give yourself a pat on the back.

      I see you have sent a CCA request, signed for? If so, i would be inclined to see what comes of that and would only advise sending bespoke letters when guided to do so from the forum.
      Best
      SA
      Last edited by SA Gold; 12 January 2015, 16:50.
      When Gold isn't enough, there is SA Gold! New to the forum and find the UE route a bit scary? Take a look at my diary here and judge for yourself. I am now saving the money each month that was making little difference to the balance and not a bit of difference to my credit file as a result of finding AAD.



      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Capital One/Cabot

        Thank you .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Capital One/Cabot

          I would go with the advice of SA Gold,
          the letter you have come across was for a SB debt that the DCA was trying to say wasn't SB because the default was registered with the Credit Reference agencys much later. the date the default was registered has nothing to do with SB it is when the last payment was made.
          If you are certain no payment has been made since 2008, and you have not written or phoned the Original creditor or Cabot to acknowledge the dept, then it is indeed SB as of Nov/Dec 2014
          If they continue to insist it is not we will find you a suitable letter to send them
          for now wait and see what they send next
          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Capital One/Cabot

            Hi and welcome to AAD from me too, moved your thread to the Formal Debt Matters section

            Best wishes
            IF
            "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Capital One/Cabot

              Originally posted by nightwatch View Post
              I would go with the advice of SA Gold,
              the letter you have come across was for a SB debt that the DCA was trying to say wasn't SB because the default was registered with the Credit Reference agencys much later. the date the default was registered has nothing to do with SB it is when the last payment was made.
              If you are certain no payment has been made since 2008, and you have not written or phoned the Original creditor or Cabot to acknowledge the dept, then it is indeed SB as of Nov/Dec 2014
              If they continue to insist it is not we will find you a suitable letter to send them
              for now wait and see what they send next
              Ok thank you. Although they have put the ball back in my court now with the "if you disagree please explain why" line at the end. My response, so far, has been a CCA request to Cabot, but I don't want to leave it with me not disagreeing and then that being an admission due to not disagreeing, if you get what I mean.

              In terms of payment of debt, I'm 100% certain that the last payment date was October 2008. I double-checked with my bank too (the only method of payment I ever made to them) and have all payments listed on a letter (from the bank).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Capital One/Cabot

                then possibly this template would be best http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...barred-england
                I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Capital One/Cabot
                  • You are not authorised to view this resource.




                  Although I have already sent them a statute barred letter, if that is what the template was for?

                  Dear Sirs,

                  Statute barred debt

                  I don’t admit liability for this debt. The last payment to this debt was made over 6 years ago and since then I have not acknowledged this debt or made any further payment to it.

                  As this debt is statute barred, you cannot take court action unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from me within this period. This is stated in s5 Limitation Act 1980, and any court claim will be defended on this basis.

                  If you have evidence that this debt isn’t statute barred then please send it to me within 21 days.

                  The Financial Conduct Authority state in CONC 7.15 that a firm must not attempt to recover a statute barred debt where they haven’t been in contact with the customer during the relevant period. And that a firm must stop demanding payments to a statute barred debt where the customer has stated they won’t be paying it.

                  Please confirm in writing that you won’t pursue me further for this debt and that you will pass this information to any other company that is interested.

                  To clarify, please be aware that this letter does not constitute acknowledgement of this debt.

                  Yours faithfully,

                  ===============================================

                  That's what they've had so far, to which they replied:

                  Dear Sir/Madam

                  Re: Cabot Financial (UK) Limited
                  And: XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX

                  Ref: XXXXXXXXX

                  You have alleged that the claim is statute barred. Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 provides that an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

                  The six year limitation period runs from the latest date on which:
                  1. A payment was made towards the debt; or
                  2. The agreement was terminated; or
                  3. You acknowledged the debt in writing.

                  We are instructed that in this case the cause of action accrued when the agreement was terminated on 22/03/2009. Therefore the debt is not statute barred and still remains payable. If you disagree please explain why.

                  ================================================== =======

                  And then I sent them (Cabot, the first one was sent to Mortimer Clarke Solicitors as they were the ones who demanded a response within 14 days prior to court action):

                  Dear Sirs,

                  I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or its clients.

                  With reference to the above agreement, I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond with you, or your solicitors, further on this matter.

                  1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

                  2. A full statement of account.

                  3. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

                  4. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

                  I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be used to set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.

                  I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

                  I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

                  To clarify, please be aware that this letter does not constitute acknowledgement of this alleged debt.

                  I look forward to hearing from you.

                  Yours faithfully,

                  ================================================== ======================================

                  And that is where we are up to now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Capital One/Cabot

                    Sorry, it appears I missed SA Gold's edit to the post.

                    I shall sit back and await the standard 40 days letter from Cabot regarding the CCA request that seems to be common practice with them. Not sure how they continue to get away with it though if the legislation states 12 working days.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Capital One/Cabot

                      Just one further question. Is there any point in sending a subject access request to Captial One, asking for copies of the agreement, statements, any default notices, etc. or would the CCA request, in theory, cover all of this information?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Capital One/Cabot

                        to see the template you need to register on the template site using the same details you have used to register here. the template is worded so you don't admit the debt but looks like you have knowledge of the technical facts xx
                        I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                        If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Capital One/Cabot

                          Originally posted by hello_people View Post
                          Just one further question. Is there any point in sending a subject access request to Captial One, asking for copies of the agreement, statements, any default notices, etc. or would the CCA request, in theory, cover all of this information?
                          the CCA request is the main template to use. it asks for a copy of the executed (original)signed agreement, t&C from inception and T&C as varied so it covers all the bases.
                          they don't always have a copy of the default.
                          Last edited by nightwatch; 12 January 2015, 22:35. Reason: p.s
                          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                          If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Capital One/Cabot

                            personally I wouldn't be mucking around with SARs and CCAs, you are sure it's SB then it is SB

                            Cabot are taking the piss, I would be sending the second SB letter http://www.all-about-debt.co.uk/inde...statute-barred

                            it doesn't matter about anything else, this is the crux

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Capital One/Cabot

                              To join our Main site and to view templates as posted above please see this post -- > Accessing Our New Templates
                              "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride"

                              Comment

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