CCJ with CO but no payment order

[julian]

This is a great forum, and I need just a little clarification on CCJs with Charging Orders, which I cannot see elsewhere.

A few years ago the recession made a hole in my life and I ended up in thin air without any money. Having a couple of credit cards I took on more 'easy finance' to pay for necessities and had not means of paying. Naively I did not ask for CCA etc, but was eventually taken to court, fluffed it and a CCJ was awarded. Having no money to pay even a nominal amount per month, the judge, at the hearing, asked the claimant to put a Charging Order through. The judge did explain what a CO was and that it would be unlikely that a sale would be forced. I did not challenge as I expected to be able to find my feet again and satisfy the CO.

So I have a CCJ with a CO and I am not making any payments. Over the years, the legal torturers (solicitors) for the creditor have been sending threats of bankruptcy, forced sale etc.

Recently, the debt was sold on. They have sent 3 letters 1) announcing the new assignment, 2) threatening if I don't pay what I should be paying (a £0 was agreed in court - hence CO), 3) offering a once only opportunity to settle with a full and final settlement, or start a payment plan - ending with a threat if I don't.

Although the debt was on Noddle,it appears to have been removed. There is no CCJ reported, and never has been, but the CO have been recorded at the Land Registry, although I am not sure if it is only a restriction, as the house if jointly owned.

I hope to be able to see a time in the future where I can settle, but not just now. So for the moment I am incommunicado.

So the query is - what is the likely next step? Can the new creditor enforce any payment or sale order?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

This is a great forum, and I need just a little clarification on CCJs with Charging Orders, which I cannot see elsewhere.

All you had to do was ask...

Regards the charge, is it in your sole name? If so, is the house in joint names or in your sole name also?

When was the CO granted? A CCJ would last 6 years and don't appear on credit reports, you can view any CCJ's at Trust Online (<-- Linky)

Remember s.20 Limitations Act states that it can go SB after 12 years (not like the normal credit Defaults/Debts which last 6 years)...

20(1) No action shall be brought to recover -

(a) any principal sum of money secured by a mortgage or other charge on property (whether real or personal) .. after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued.

The sticking point here is the last sentence... "from the date on which the right to receive the money accrued." which date does this relate to, the date of default or the date of the charge...? Paul may be best served answering that part but in the meantime, can you clarify the points above....

Thanks

Info for reference --> Bermans: Section 313 Charging Orders - enforceable or not?

Seems they used the date of application for enforced sale in the above example which is abso-fucking-lootly-ridiculous!!!

The Court of Appeal found that the judge had erred in that the right to receive the money did not accrue on the date when the section 313 charge was granted, but when the trustee obtained an order for sale. So time did not start to run under the limitation until that later date.

[ken100464]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

When was the CO granted? A CCJ would last 6 years and don't appear on credit reports, you can view any CCJ's at Trust Online (<-- Linky)

!

Niddy

Thats strange as our CCJ does appear on Noddle just in another section away from the debt itself. Its all the correct info like case number etc just doesnt say who owns it.

Should we be taking Noddle to task on this?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Niddy

Thats strange as our CCJ does appear on Noddle just in another section away from the debt itself. Its all the correct info like case number etc just doesnt say who owns it.

Should we be taking Noddle to task on this?

I will explain, a CCJ does not necessarily have to show on a CRA record as Trust Online is the official body for registration and management of CCJ's so if you know you have one, and it aint on a CRA report then check Trust Online and you'll find it.

ALL lenders check trust online within their credit search so don't think that cos it aint on a CRA file it'll get missed, it won't.

Clearer?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Should we be taking Noddle to task on this?

p.s. Noddle are nobody, they are a third party registered under the small shitty CRA called Call Credit which only 3 lenders exclusively use.

Point being, ignore most the data you read on noddle/call credit as most lenders use the main 2 CRA's not least cos it is more accurate.

You realise Noddle/CallCredit etc retain searches for 2 years, well they used to with me but when I issued a claim for damages they removed them all cos they were all over 1yr old. They think they know it all but like I said, see you in court then. The fact the two superior CRA's report for 12 months is the case precedent I will use, ie if they are happy that 1yr is adequate recording for the purpose of search criteria then you MUST follow suit.

They agreed eventually.

[julian]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Niddy, these issues stop us sleeping, it seems you always need to be wide awake to stop the sneaky snakes from taking advantage.

The debt is in my name and the house is in joint names with a joint mortgage.

The CO was granted early 2010.

The letter from the court ordered 'forthwith' payment, which he knew was impossible, but preparatory for the CO. Then the Land Registry sent both me and other half advisory letters.

I will check out the link, ta. Could it be that as it went straight to CO they did not bother with a CCJ recording? I must admit that I haven't been to Experian since, as they wanted to charge me, having already had a previous 'free' trial, so it could be just Noddle who hasn't picked it up.

With regard to the missing 'debt', perhaps it is still in somebody's in-tray and will reappear.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Niddy, these issues stop us sleeping, it seems you always need to be wide awake to stop the sneaky snakes from taking advantage.

The debt is in my name and the house is in joint names with a joint mortgage.

The CO was granted early 2010.

The letter from the court ordered 'forthwith' payment, which he knew was impossible, but preparatory for the CO. Then the Land Registry sent both me and other half advisory letters.

I will check out the link, ta. Could it be that as it went straight to CO they did not bother with a CCJ recording? I must admit that I haven't been to Experian since, as they wanted to charge me, having already had a previous 'free' trial, so it could be just Noddle who hasn't picked it up.

With regard to the missing 'debt', perhaps it is still in somebody's in-tray and will reappear.

Mate you need to go here ---> CCJs, court orders & fines - Search yourself and others - Trust Online

That will show any CCJ that may be registered but the CCJ is immaterial here, you need to look at resolution with the CO.

As the debt is sole and the house is in joint names, you win already - they will really struggle to enforce the 'restriction'

I'd not be overly worried about this, at the end of the day it is not your house to sell is it - there is another owner

Following this yet....

If it was in 2010, they must apply for a CO - they cannot skip a CCJ straight to CO, there is a process and anyway you get the CCJ then you get interim CO then the final CO so you get 3 chances to defend a claim. They cannot take two away from you leaving a simple CO - that's bull shit.

Nowadays, since the recent changes they can skip certain things but they still need a CCJ...

Think like this, how can you enforce against nothing? You must have a judgment in order for them to enforce it with a CO.

[julian]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

I have also found that Noddle do not record all searches.

I have been told in writing by a DCA that they used Call Credit/Noddle to get some info, but there was no record of their search on Noddle.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

I have also found that Noddle do not record all searches.

I have been told in writing by a DCA that they used Call Credit/Noddle to get some info, but there was no record of their search on Noddle.

grrrr

Listen to what I said above - forget Noddle. They are shyte. Just forget everything you have ever done with them. Worthless tat. A DCA may record a debt trace search which will show on other searches, but similarly not necessarily accurate on Call Credit systems.

[julian]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Got it. Yes they are!

[ken100464]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Think till you come to a place like here you think the world has fallen in on you when you get a CO.

In this case it will be a restriction which by all accounts is pretty much worthless to the creditor despite everything they wish to tell you.

Unless you intend to up sticks in the near future then there is not alot else they can do. Its just going to sit there withering away with inflation.

Thats why I have seen moves by the creditors to remove the no interest rule on CCA's. They realise CO's are not quite what they hoped they would be. But dont worry think they just realising they will lose big time on a few of these. Hence them starting to bleat to the politicos to change the law.

But that will be a long time coming if it ever does.

[julian]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Well following Niddy's link, I paid my £4 to Trust Online for a list of CCJs for me and my OH.

There are none for my name and address!!!!!!!!!!

There are none for my OH name and address.

Should I be happy or what?

Just wondering if there could be a mistake in spelling that could cause it to have been misdirected. So as not to waste another £4 does anyone know what the query checks on?

Exact names eg so a misspelled name will not show? eg julian/julan

Can you just put an initial? eg J

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

If trust online doesn't show it then they (the creditor) have not registered it. But there must be a CCJ in order for there to be a CO. But like you said, they may well have screwed it up and went straight for a CO - if that is the case, I will check with Paul cos I don't think they can do that - well not back then anyway (I could be wrong so will get clarity)...

As discussed above, you'd be worrying over little as they cannot enforce this based on you not owning the house. It is joint.

[julian]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

I do hope they have stuffed it.

It would be really interesting to know what they can do if they have. If there is a 28 day period to pay before a CCJ is registered, there surely must be a similar time limit on the registration, must there, could there, might there?

[ken100464]

Re: CCJ with CO but no payment order

Would the fact the debt has been sold on have any effect?

I did a bit of research on this when I got my knickers in a twist about it and the new owner would have to register the CCJ in their name via the court at a cost.

Hence why in my case the new owner is leaving the original solicitor to take the money and hassle us.