Where do I begin - allegation of Housing Benefit fraud

[Up2MyEyes]

I'm in such a mess and don't know what I'm supposed to do about it.

I will try to start at the beginning but if it gets in a muddle please forgive me.

My ex-husband walked out 15 years ago, leaving me with debt and a small child. I managed to get a mortage though to provide a roof for us, it needed (and still does) alot of work to be done on it.

For a few years I was in a business partnership which folded and left me with more debt, I was using cards and loans to just live. Foolish I know now but couldn't survive any other way at the time.

Needless to say I've been chased for the debts and have been ducking and diving for all these years, so much so that they have fallen off my credit file despite me not having paid them back, I've been trying to go through the unenforceability route but so far no luck and still being chased.

Met a lovely guy 10 years ago who knew I was in a mess financially and in fear of losing my house, he kindly bought it off me at same as I'd paid but let me continue living in the house. Had tried to claim housing benefit originally but as I'd owned/lived in it previously I wasn't allowed to claim. This did cause problems but managed to work around it as there was equity in the property.

He lived here for a short time years ago but couldn't get work so moved back to his home area, though we continued to go out together.

As I've had bad credit files for years I've been unable to buy anything for the house, so he kindly let me use his credit and everything I've bought over the last few years has been solely in his name just incase baliffs turned up at the door. It meant I didn't own anything and so they wouldn't be able to take items that didn't belong to me.

Last year I lost my last remaining parent and inherited property which I told the benefits about immediately, but as I had nothing to actually live on they told me to continue claiming as a lone parent.

Earlier this year he was able to get his job transferred and has now moved in with me. I notified the benefits straight away that my circumstances had changed.

However, now they have decided that we were living together since 2004 despite the fact that he wasn't here and I was on my own.

I've been called in for a number of interviews under caution and have now been sent a date to attend court early next year with them stating that the overpayment is over £50k and this then starts the chain of claims against me for council tax as well for £6k.

If he had lived here I wouldn't mind holding my hands up and admitting it but I've been a single parent for all this time, struggling on my own and then having a baby in December 2007, with the only help coming from my eldest child.

I've no idea what I'm supposed to do

[garlok]

Re: Where do I begin

Don't really know where to start with this really. However have you asked for or thought about getting some real professional advice here. I don't think much of CAB but they may be able to point you in the right direction. It seems to be a comnplex issue and as court proceedings have been initiated then it depends which court. if criminal then you are entitled to legal reps even if its only the duty solicitor.

I would suggest that you need to speak to a good family law specialist. Send a PM to one of moderators on here Paul. He and his firm are consumer law specialists but they may handle cases like this in their practice or if not they may be able to recommend you to someone.

regards
Garlok

[Up2MyEyes]

Re: Where do I begin

His previous marriage had failed causing him to move back into his parents house, as such he didn't pay any utility bills there or have a rent book. Both his parents are in receipt of benefit through ill health and through worrying what it would do to their benefits never declared him as living there.

The Benefits agency here are stating that just because he didn't sleep under the same roof as me the fact that we were in a relationship all those years is the same as him living here and just working away. They said it's just like people who are married but work on oil rigs. That seems so unfair as he wasn't living here and wasn't helping me financially.

It's such a big mess though as I know how it looks despite me having reasons for everything. When he had lived here near the beginning of our relationship I had claimed for him under my claim, they are now saying there is no record of him ever having lived here or me taking him off my claim. Luckily I found one letter from years ago that proves he had been here and that I'd told them when he left. That ties in with him starting work and moving away. The thing is though as it was a joint claim he was on my bank account but as I was so much in debt when he moved out I couldn't take his name off the account as I was never out of the overdraft enough to have his name taken off it. I was seriously ill a few years ago and ended up with bank charges snowballing whilst I was in hospital. I've tried to fight to get them back as they rack up to the tune of over £5k but I've had no luck with that either.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Where do I begin

Just want to wish you luck. Hopefully one of the guys that's clued up with this will pop by.

DWP rules are rather prehistoric but if you can prove that he never stayed at yours then you may have an argument. Remember, "boyfriend and girlfriend" are NOT classed as LTMW (living together as man and wife).

Good luck

[Up2MyEyes]

Re: Where do I begin

I've been to see the CAB but they can't help me as it's criminal law, I've been to a solicitor who has said it's too high an amount to be dealt with at magistrates and will be moved to Crown Court.

Back to the beginning and the problems with the house. I was trying to do a few small jobs on the house, nothing major just painting etc and wanted to put the tv (it was a free gift from my mobile phone company) onto the wall in the bedroom. Only to be told that there are massive cracks in the wall and the wall ties have failed, the wall is bowing and can be clearly seen, when I got the survey out it actually states about the floors needing to be dug out as a condition of the mortgage when I bought the house but I hadn't understood any of it and had no-one to ask for guidance, it could have been in a foriegn language but I needed a roof over our heads so went ahead anyway.

Now it's been realised that the entire house needs to go back to the bare brick, floors dug out and complete rewire, to make things worse the roof has been leaking into our bedroom so that needs replacing too.

I've never been able to afford to do any of these jobs as I've never had a bean to my name just pottering along on my own as best I could.

When my remaining parent died last year I inherited commercial property with a small rental income from them though the rents have been rather hit and miss at coming through so it's hard to budget around them arriving. Last quarter I received nothing at all as insurance and marketing had to be taken out of it as one property has been empty for quite some time. As such I took the decision that the only way I could possibly do the work on the house was to put one of the commercial properties up for sale and was expecting it to take quite some time to sell. Much to my surprise the downstairs tenant has put an offer in for the full asking price which is a god send on one hand as I could see about getting the works done. It's going to require we move out completely for a good few months and the work won't come cheap but it will still be move cost effective than actually attempting to buy somewhere else as the mortgage is still so small. We couldn't afford a larger mortgage per month.

Now I'm even more stressed as I don't know what to do for the best with regard to the sale as on paper it's going to look like I can afford to pay back what they are claiming I've been overpaid, even though I was living alone till earlier this year.

If they don't believe me and try to take the property sale money off me then I won't be able to do the necessary repair work to the house and I'm also in the position that I could be given a custodial sentence for something I haven't done.

It's unlikely I'm going to qualify for legal aid but can't afford to pay for legal help, it's such a nightmare

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Where do I begin

You know what, if you've been cautioned about this by investigations then I would speak to a benefits specialist such as the following (way to find some)

I thought benefit fraud entitled you to free legal advice? I think it does you know.

---> benefit fraud free legal help - Google Search

[Up2MyEyes]

Re: Where do I begin

Thanks Never in Doubt

They think that because he bought the house, even though it was only because I was about to lose it and become homeless, that means he lived here.

Years ago they sent out someone to check up on me and ask why his name was on the electoral roll, as I explained to them at the time it's because he owned the house. They explained that it didn't necessarily mean that he lived there which was fair enough. They said they would update their records for me so when the electoral roll forms have arrived and it's asked if there is any change I've always put no as it was as they had put it. Turns out they never altered it and so it appears he's always been on the electoral roll here.

He couldn't go on his parents electoral roll do to their benefits but as he owned this house and they had visited over it I didn't think there was a problem. I'd told them at the time of their visit about him living at his parents and why his name wasn't on the electoral roll there.

[Up2MyEyes]

Re: Where do I begin

I've got a solicitor now but now sure how good they are, everytime I make an appointment it has to get changed at least twice before it actually goes ahead. Meant to be seeing her tomorrow but it's now been changed to Thursday and instead of seeing her it's going to be someone else at the practise, I've also just realised it's going to coincide with my psychiatrist appointment.

I feel abit like I'm being thrown to the lions at the moment, everywhere I turn it seems everyone is against me and no-one believes that he wasn't living here. I can't get any proof through the circumstances and him living at his parents. It's a complete mess. Really don't want to plead guilty to something that I know isn't the case but I can't prove other wise. I know how it looks to the outside world but it really wasn't like that, I've struggled on my own for many years.

Don't know what to do now, I'm in court in just over 10 days and it's making me ill.

[PlanB]

Re: Where do I begin

If you've got a solicitor's appointment before the court hearing then you'll be taken care of so try not to worry yourself so much.

You say you have an appointment with your psychiatrist soon so I was wondering whether you have been given a Mental Health Advocate. An IMHA is there to provide help and support for people to understand their legal rights. I have no idea whether you are entitled to one or if they could even help you in this particular situation but it may be worth asking about this. A Mental Health Advocate can sometimes speak on your behalf at meetings where legal stuff is being discussed which you may not understand which may have made a difference to those DWP interviews under caution. Your solicitor will guide you as to whether a report from your psychiatrist could be helpful for these criminal proceedings too.

Don't worry about losing letters from the benefits people from the past because you should be given an opportunity to get hold of these under the Data Protection Act which your solicitor will know how to do on your behalf.

I wish you the best of luck with all this

[BBoo]

Re: Where do I begin

I don't know how much time you have to play with, but have you considered investing £10 in a SAR to the DWP. They have to by law give you everything they have about you and you'll be able to see what proof they have that they're not telling you about.

My wife was accused of benefit fraud and it was only by doing an SAR that we discovered they actually didn't have any evidence as, like you, she'd never committed it. We then took the fight to them and they eventually backed down. We're now in the process of negotiating suitable compensation, though it looks as though we may have to go to court to settle this properly as it is public monies.

They have now changed from writing, "We have a proven case of fraud against you," to writing in a letter it is on their systems as a mistake. Lying bar stewards, and we have the evidence to prove it from the SAR!

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Where do I begin

So you can SAR the DWP? Great to know that, most useful as one of my mates has been investigated and was interviewed under caution back in April and hasn't heard anything further (good or bad) and is still wondering and very worried about the outcome.

Yes sure you can

Form in HTML format

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

Clink the link at top then will open in word

[Up2MyEyes]

Re: Where do I begin

I have been sent a huge amount of paperwork (evidence) which my solicitor has got, she has cancelled her appointment with me for this morning and now I'm to see her junior tomorrow afternoon. Seems he's coming to court with me instead of her as well, can't say I'm best pleased about that but will decide what to do after having met him tomorrow. Don't even know if I could change solicitors as I have signed an agreement with them which mentioned about fees etc. Thankfully my bf is coming with me tomorrow.

He's also agreed to come to the psychiatrist with me at lunch-time as at the moment despite my medication I just want to spend the entire day crying and it's a struggle to get myself to leave the house. I feel everyone is staring at me and accusing me of Benefit Fraud with fingers pointing at me. I know it's not really like that but in my head it is. I'm not sleeping well and weeks ago when I first got the court date through panic washed over me to the point that I did consider ending it all. Thankfully through support of my bf those feelings have subsided and as he keeps telling me whatever happens we will get through it together. I haven't killed anyone, I'm not terminally ill etc etc etc. Whatever happens we can weather the storm - together. Glad he's got the strength for me as I haven't at the moment.

[PlanB]

Re: Where do I begin

I have been sent a huge amount of paperwork (evidence) which my solicitor has got, she has cancelled her appointment with me for this morning and now I'm to see her junior tomorrow afternoon. Seems he's coming to court with me instead of her as well, can't say I'm best pleased about that but will decide what to do after having met him tomorrow. Don't even know if I could change solicitors as I have signed an agreement with them which mentioned about fees etc. Thankfully my bf is coming with me tomorrow.

He's also agreed to come to the psychiatrist with me at lunch-time as at the moment despite my medication I just want to spend the entire day crying and it's a struggle to get myself to leave the house. I feel everyone is staring at me and accusing me of Benefit Fraud with fingers pointing at me. I know it's not really like that but in my head it is. I'm not sleeping well and weeks ago when I first got the court date through panic washed over me to the point that I did consider ending it all. Thankfully through support of my bf those feelings have subsided and as he keeps telling me whatever happens we will get through it together. I haven't killed anyone, I'm not terminally ill etc etc etc. Whatever happens we can weather the storm - together. Glad he's got the strength for me as I haven't at the moment.

Good to hear your bloke is supporting you through this.

I expect the first court hearing is a routine preliminary one which is why your solicitor is confident her junior can handle it. She wouldn't put you in a vulnerable position on prurpose.

If you attended those DWP interviews under caution alone then I would consider asking your psychiatrist if he/she can offer an opinion as to whether you may have been in a vulnerable state at the time. Those interviews can be so stressful and some people get coerced into saying things that they don't really mean just to get the hell out of there when feeling under pressure. Obviously if those interviews were to be discredited then the DWP wouldn't have the bulk of their evidence and they'd have to start again from scratch. Only this time you'll have your solicitor onside to do the legwork with you.

Good luck

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Where do I begin

Yes sure you can

Form in HTML format

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

Clink the link at top then will open in word

Just to add you DO NOT need to use that form. The ICO and technical guidance does state a firm cannot expect a pro forma so you don't have to use it but to speed things up it does help. However you also have to bear in mind the investigation data will not be sent out as its under exclusion of the act.

[garlok]

Re: Where do I begin

Out of my depth a bit this as I said, but have been trying to undertsand what has gone wrong and try to look up to get a conclusion.

First of all best of luck in court. You can only trust your solicitor at this stage.

However there may be some explanation in the way this was handled. You have to think about the line of questions for your own peace of mind. Did your partner buy the property outright or was there a loan or mortgage of some kind?

If the property was purchased outright there would have been questions under the Money Laundering Regualtions as to where the money has come from, certainly would have been asked by anyone reputable handling the conveyancing as it is standard practice now. If there was a mortgage secured on the property then if it was NOT specifically "Buy to Let" then the DWP will take the line that he was resident there and formally cohabiting with yourself.

Not an easy one and like I said you have to rely on your professional legal people.

The question I would ask though, Niddy, is that not withstanding the exclusions under the DPA in a SRA, there would have to be a "discovery" stage in the legal proceedings criminal or otherwise for U2ME to prepare a proper defence which would include all of the findings from the investigation and her sols should have all this in their posession at this stage?

regards
Garlok