Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

[matty_choo]

Hi,
I was wondering if anybody can give me some help or advice as to where to turn next regarding an outstanding debt with Vodafone.

The background to my story is as follows...

In early 2011 I ran into financial difficulties due to seperation with my partner, me being left with the mortgage, bills etc to pay with one salary where once there were two.I had a mobile phone contract with Vodafone for a dongle and an iPhone which was costing me around £80 per month which I could not sustain. I contacted Vodafone at the time when I ran into difficulties and explained my monthly income and outgoings and offered them payment of what I could afford at the time without running into further difficulties.

The adviser that I spoke to said that after a while of not making full payments the contract would cancel down automatically and the account would then be passed to a debt collection agency. After approximately 3 motnhs this happened and I was contacted by the DCA (Fredrickson's) to arrange payment of the debt. I contacted them as soon as I received the first letter and again explained what I had already done to Vodafone and the DCA accepted the agreement which I had in place of £10 per month until my circumstances changed.

My complaint arises after contacting the DCA in August last year in the hope of arranging a full and final settlement in the hope that the default that Vodafone had registered on my credit reference file would be removed.

After contacting the DCA offering 50% of the amount showing as outstanding to Vodafone on my credit file, the DCA contacted me to refuse my offer and also said that the amount owing was more. In addition to this, the payments showing as being made on my credit file, were less than what I was actually paying to the DCA.

I contacted the DCA and asked them to explain the discrepancies between the two amounts and why the full amount of payments had not been passed on to Vodafone and they replied with a statement of account. The statement showed that they had added a £100 'referral fee' onto the original debt from Vodafone.

I don't think I am unjustified in saying this, but to ask someone who is already in financial difficulties and paying £700 in early termination fees, for the DCA to add a further £100 for this I think is scandalous. After finding this out I did a bit of research on here and various other sites and have contacted Trading Standards who referred me to Consumer Avice Direct who then passed me on to National Debtline. When I received a response from National Debtline they advised me to contact the Financial Ombudsman regarding the charges and also mentioned that I should report the company to the OFT. Both of these I have now done, but as yet I am yet to hear anything back.

Meanwhile, after my final letter to the DCA before referring my complaint to the Ombudsman the DCA have contacted me again confirming their stance... The £100 stays... And advising me to contact Vodafone directly.

The main concern for me was to try and come to an agreement with the DCA or Vodafone to have the default removed from my file, as apart from this I have otherwise got a good history, mortgage and essential outgoings kept up to date etc etc. However, the DCA are not budging on this £100 which, I understand from OFT guidelines that I am not liable to pay and are refusing to remove the defaut.

I still want to arrange to clear the debt, but now feel as though I have been ripped off as the full amount of my payments have not been being passed on to Vodafone and now my balance outstanding is therefore a lot higher. As it stands, with all of the payments that I have made the balance should now stand at £461.24, Vodafone show the amount outstanding on my credit file as £511.94 and have confirmed this in a web chat with them and yet the DCA are chasing me for £561.24.

After being passed from pillar to post for the past 5 months I really hope someone on here can help!

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Hi Matty_choo,
Sorry you've not had a response till now, this will bump it up to the top.

Sounds as if you've done everything you could so far. I don't know how far you'd get with that default removal, unless the FOS find that they acted improperly in placing it in the first place.
Strikes me that Vodafone have treated you very unfairly, simply throwing you to the dogs after your request for help rather than constructively helping you.

There are others such as Niddy on here who know far more about phone contracts than I do so I will flag this up for attention. Maybe a stiff letter to the CEO of vodafone might help...see what others say..

Elsa x

[matty_choo]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Thanks Elsa.

I'll wait and see what the Ombudsman says. Although I don't hold much faith in them after some of the stories I have read on here!

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

I think that's probably your best bet Matty.

[matty_choo]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

OK thanks Elsa. I'll update when I hear back.

[Riz]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

I presume you will be referencing OFT guidelines in any complaint?

Charging for debt recovery

3.10 Charges should not be levied inappropriately or unfairly.

3.11 Examples of unfair or improper practices are as follows:

a. misleading debtors into believing they are legally liable to pay recovery charges when this is not the case

b. claiming recovery costs from a debtor in the absence of express contractual provision to be able to do so 50

50 Even where there is an express provision, a charge may still be unfair if it does not reflect actual and necessary costs.

For example, where there is no provision in the credit agreement that expressly allows for such charges to be levied.


c. not giving a clear indication in credit agreements of the amount of any charges payable on default 51

51 The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 2010 require the agreement to include a statement of 'any charges payable for late payment' and 'any other charges deriving from the credit agreement and the conditions under which those charges may be changed'


d. applying unreasonable 52 charges.

52 An 'unreasonable charge' in this context would be a charge, the level of which, is not based on the recovery of actual and necessary costs.

In the OFT's view, creditors should consider reducing or stopping interest and charges where a borrower evidences that he is in financial difficulty and is unable to meet repayments as they fall due or when he can only make ‘token’ repayments such that his level of debt would continue to increase if interest and charges continue to be applied

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

It is not a credit agreement.

This case is yet another reason why I refuse to have anything to do with Vodaphone.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

A mobile contract is a credit agreement (isn't it??)....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Sadly this won't go well for you. Ill try and explain;

1. Vodafone are under no guidance to assist someone in financial difficulties. Usual practice is demands for 3-6 months followed by a default being registered at CRA's;
2. You complain their agent charged £100 - this wont hold too much weight as they may classify it as a trace fee/legal charge within appropriate and actual costs in recovering the debt;
3. The offer to the DCA needs to be around £250 but its how you word it that does the deal, I can help if required but no guarantees;
4. You suggest you want the default wiping - forget it. You have a 1% chance that a dca will agree to that UNLESS you pay in full or we can get them on a compliance fault with dates or some other error in the registrative marker at the CRA's;
5. This is still a telecom firm and so ofcom should be used - not so much the FOS (at this stage)

Not being pessimistic or nasty, just talking from experience

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

A mobile contract is a credit agreement (isn't it??)....

No, no more than one's weekly account with a milkman would be.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA



Ignore me. Not thinking straight. Yep you're right Cloggy. Thanks

[matty_choo]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

I presume you will be referencing OFT guidelines in any complaint?

Hi Rizzle,

Yes, this is what I have been quoting in my letters. Although not in as much detail, which I think could have made my complaint stronger...

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Hi Rizzle,

Yes, this is what I have been quoting in my letters. Although not in as much detail, which I think could have made my complaint stronger...

Well the OFT guidelines on debt collection are just that, guidelines - they are not statute nor binding.

Sadly, as previously mentioned - you need to look at a bigger offer to have any real fight, failing that just don't pay and ignore them and see out the term till it drops off your credit file.

I dunno but the last thing I want is to leave you with a feeling you might win, when from experience I can't see how unless they just feel generous.

[matty_choo]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Sadly this won't go well for you. Ill try and explain;

1. Vodafone are under no guidance to assist someone in financial difficulties. Usual practice is demands for 3-6 months followed by a default being registered at CRA's;
2. You complain their agent charged £100 - this wont hold too much weight as they may classify it as a trace fee/legal charge within appropriate and actual costs in recovering the debt;
3. The offer to the DCA needs to be around £250 but its how you word it that does the deal, I can help if required but no guarantees;
4. You suggest you want the default wiping - forget it. You have a 1% chance that a dca will agree to that UNLESS you pay in full or we can get them on a compliance fault with dates or some other error in the registrative marker at the CRA's;
5. This is still a telecom firm and so ofcom should be used - not so much the FOS (at this stage)

Not being pessimistic or nasty, just talking from experience

Hi Niddy,

I was hoping you would come along... I know you're not being nasty and it makes sense what you are saying.

The only reason I was disputing the £100 charge was because of the OFT guidelines. It also, to me, seems totally excessive to be adding this charge onto a debt that was already being paid off - albeit by reduced payments - and on top of a £700 early termination fee. They're having a laugh!

I used the templates on this site to make a full and final settlement and offered £260 in two letters which were both declined.

I read your comments in another post about stopping payments and then renegotiating a settlement... Any advice on this please mate? Your help would be greatly appreciated!

I'd have to check the date on the default in the papers that I have got, but will have a look and update you.

I've already sent a complaint to FOS with regards to the DCA adding the charge added to the debt.

[Riz]

Re: Vodafone Default and additional charges added to debt by DCA

Hi Rizzle,

Yes, this is what I have been quoting in my letters. Although not in as much detail, which I think could have made my complaint stronger...

As said, they are not legally binding. However, FOS and other industry ombudsmen are meant to take them into account when looking at fairness etc. So worth referencing to perhaps strengthen an existing case.