Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

[cymruambyth]

This is Morgan Stanley - Goldfish cc.
They have sent an illegible application form, all you can read are my OH's details. Over the last 4 years Cabot have sent at least 3 different sets of t&cs. The account has been put in dispute, which they deny.
This is with FIRE who have stated that at the time of entering an agreement with Goldfish the terms would have been legible. I am misinformed about my arguments and it is evident that I am delaying repayment of this account.
If I dont contact them they will escalate the collection process.

I would prefer to avoid another court battle with them (having lost with Monument/Providan )so any suggestions as to my
next action would be gratefully received!

They have not been sending annual statements.

Last letter sent stated account in serious dispute as illegible documents. shouldn't take any actions etc - the usual.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

The terms have to be legible and they have to be able to produce a set otherwise they cannot take action. How can they try and enforce a debt when they don't know the terms that you allegedly breached?

I would be arguing via letter - look at our UE templates, you'll get a lot of info and templates there.....

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Send something like this back:---> http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...9&postcount=10

[Angry Cat]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

HI Cymruambyth!

What we have to establish here is, have you been provided with the correct inception T&C's, as well as the terms as varied.

I have before me MSDW T&C's:
08/99;
03/00 and;
terms as varied : 2001 & 2002.

Also, I hold an MSDW PPI Certificate of Insurance; issue date 11/99
(Not sure if you took out PPI?)

The following may assist you re: the sending of annual statements:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...it/oft1002.pdf

Please, can you state which issue T&C's you have been sent?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Send something like this back:---> http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...9&postcount=10

I do not disagree, Niddy!
They are on the back foot in any case re: the legibility of the document.

Just trying to arm Cymru with some backup information

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Ifs it's an goldfish card the terms are on the app so based on the OP saying that it was illegible plus the response from the DCA I'd say yes, the original terms are on the app form (illegible). So the dca tried to send the variant terms because obviously they cannot provide a recon of original terms in which case great!!

They won't be able to enforce.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Ifs it's an goldfish card the terms are on the app so based on the OP saying that it was illegible plus the response from the DCA I'd say yes, the original terms are on the app form (illegible) and they've tried to send the variant terms bug cannot provide a recon of original terms in which case great!!

They won't be able to enforce.

This is not in relation to a Goldfish Card.

Crapbot, are chasing an alleged debt that started out as a Morgan Stanley Dean Witter Card!
They dug up some agreements from some coptic tomb or, elsewhere. But do not know which issue T&C's to attach.
Every single one of those ancient remain agreements that I have seen are totally illegible.

[Paul.]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Cabot vs Paterson springs to mind, a case which i was fortunate to oversee.

Cabot could not satisfy the Court that the terms were the correct terms and their claim accordingly failed.

[cymruambyth]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Hi thanks for the comments, it is a MSDW taken out in 1999 complete with totally illegible t&cs. Legibler t&cs are dated 06 and 00, plus Goldfish from 2008.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Didn't MSDW card also half self contained terms?

Anyway - point is if the terms are illegible they can't enforce can they?

[cymruambyth]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

No they can't but it would be nice to send a suitable reply to stop they actions; one of the local DJs has incredible eyesight ............. if he can make out 1 word then it counts as legible!

[cymruambyth]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

I have found this, is it reported so that I can have a complete transcript? Plus can it be quoted in correspondence?

Mr Scott Paterson, at Doncaster county court in February this year, defeated Cabot Financial, which was trying to recoup £5,054 he had run up on a Morgan Stanley Dean Witter credit card. Judge Russell decided the copy of the agreement was illegible, the terms and conditions were not the ones originally supplied to Mr Paterson and that Cabot had failed to produce a properly reconstituted document.

[Paul.]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

I have found this, is it reported so that I can have a complete transcript? Plus can it be quoted in correspondence?

Mr Scott Paterson, at Doncaster county court in February this year, defeated Cabot Financial, which was trying to recoup £5,054 he had run up on a Morgan Stanley Dean Witter credit card. Judge Russell decided the copy of the agreement was illegible, the terms and conditions were not the ones originally supplied to Mr Paterson and that Cabot had failed to produce a properly reconstituted document.

Im not sure if we got it transcribed

[cymruambyth]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

Would it be worth quoting this to FIRE?Cabot or would that give then time to change stuff?

[Paul.]

Re: Cabot/FIRE/MSDW

have Cabot issued proceedings?