Barclaycard raided my bank account!

[evilcartman]

Phew, that was close!

I had a long-running dispute with Egg over the enforceability of their agreement (made before 2003, wording is defective and the necessary terms and conditions are absent).

Barclaycard bought Egg last year and silly me continued banking with Barclays and one of those Woolwich offset mortgages.

Then last Thursday, I had a letter out of the blue from Barclaycard saying they had exercised their "legal right" to steal several grand out of my account. This wasn't even savings - I'm on JSA and had used the offset mortgage's "reserve account" facility to keep my head above water in the current account. And yes, I know that sounds crazy but I'm selling the house, which still has a significant amount of equity, then paying off the mortgage and buying something outright to live mortgage-free and rent-free for good.

But anyway, I got onto Barclaycard and explained the situation, and by some miracle they agreed to refund the money! Niddy says I had a very lucky escape indeed.

A credit union account has now been opened and the money is safe. But my word, it's a good job I don't have a dodgy ticker or I'd have probably died last week.

Niddy asked me to start a thread about this. I'll go into more detail later, although I may be deliberately vague about some things in case "they" are reading.

[evilcartman]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

OK, I'd like to know how to progress things from here.

If this is the wrong place to seek the specific advice I'm seeking, please just move it to the appropriate subforum.

First of all, I made a S78 request when Egg was still owned by Citibank. They provided a reconstituted "agreement", to which I responded with Niddy's template letter from back in his MSE days.

However, I was put off the UE route by the Slater v Egg judgement, even though I know that strictly speaking it does not magically make Egg's agreements valid. The problem is that it's down to the judge to decide the law and, as we know, they don't always go the way we think they "should" do.

So, in an attempt to be pragmatic, I went to a debt counselling service to act on my behalf. I'm not saying which one here, I'm trying not to make it too easy for the creditors to stalk me.

Now during that period, I was told by the debt counsellors that the account had been put "on hold" pending my house sale and that interest and penalty charges had been stopped accordingly. To cut a long story short, it seems that some DCAs have been economical with the truth about communication. It's this alleged lack of communication that led to the theft from my Barclays current account, which I have been told happens automatically via their computer system. I was also warned that the system would continue to keep sweeping money from my Barclays account in this way and would not be refundable in future. So naturally, that account is no longer in credit...

Now before going any further with this, I seem to recall hearing that there are restrictions on penalty charges that banks can apply to accounts that benefits are being paid into, so would there be any mileage in pursuing this line of action?

Also, as it's clear that Barclaycard want to play silly buggers, I'm wondering if I would be better off taking the case back from the debt counsellors and tackling Barclays directly from now on - and playing hardball to boot.

The fact is that Egg never showed me a valid CCA - they claim they did but, as Niddy has pointed out, it's not the original agreement and what they have shown me is useless. Therefore it is extremely unlikely that Barclaycard have it either.

My thinking at the moment is to give them an ultimatum - either accept a full and final settlement from me or take their chances in court with dodgy paperwork. Could anyone help with drafting the letter?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Why do any of the above mate? It's still UE and thus they can't enforce.

Leave it for now. Let them bring the fight to you.

You have no argument regards the setoff mate. They can do it within their group however the funds wouldn't have been earmarked for safety as it wasn't basic living expenses ie dole.

[evilcartman]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Why do any of the above mate? It's still UE and thus they can't enforce.

Leave it for now. Let them bring the fight to you.

I'm just a bit concerned that they'll start slapping on interest and penalty charges again if I ignore them, then try to sneak off to a court with their dodgy agreement.

From what I've read in another thread on here, the fact that their paperwork isn't up to scratch doesn't in itself stop them trying to enforce it. It still needs to be properly challenged.

By the way, I've now obtained my credit report from Experian and it is showing up as a default since last year.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Then you defend it

Seriously I'd not worry about charges. If you want rid though make a f&f? Using their flaws against it. But you need it to be with a dca ideally

[evilcartman]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Seriously I'd not worry about charges. If you want rid though make a f&f? Using their flaws against it. But you need it to be with a dca ideally

Well, that's why I've been asking about how to proceed from here. I basically want to say to them that what they've shown me so far is unenforceable, and that I know it is, and they have the choice of accepting my f&f or I'll call their bluff and let them take it to court.

[sinbin]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Hi, I have started to have concerns that Barclaycard may try and raid my account too...

Firstly a few months back my payments to egg were being returned to my account ( i bank with barclays ). I left it a few months and had a letter from Barclaycard asking me to contact them with regards to the returned payments. I rang them to get it sorted and they claimed that theyre having numerous calls all week with peoples payments rebounding. Anyway I had to check the details were correct and the sort code etc etc which they were.
I was assured the payments would be taken fine. They have been taken the last two months with no problems, now this weeks payment has come back to by account "suspense".

After reading bits on this thread im concerned they could just hijack my pay...i mean ive only got about 150 quid in there but do you think I should move my money and pay to another account?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

yep get out banking with Barclays if you have an Egg account as they will RoSO if they feel it necessary....

[Enforcer]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Barclaycard have done the same to me Twice. First time refunded then hit me for a second time! They do not have an enforceable agreement. Simply an application form, which is void under s59 although Judge Wacksman describes this as a prospective future regulated agreement and unexecuted. Clearly states, when we consider your application. It is further unexecuted as there is no signature by Barclaycard nor is it dated.Despite numerous letters to Barclaycard they "consider" that they have a valid agreement.
Now gone to FOS and Trading Standards.
Watch that they don't come back!

I want my money back.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Even if a judge calls it irredeemably unenforceable the bank will still offset if you have funds with them.

Not much FOS will/can do especially based on the ue argument. Kinda waste of time, sadly.

[Enforcer]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Look at Barclays Bank Retail Agreement section 1.3 This agreement does not apply to Barclaycard. Where this agreement does not apply you will usually need a seperate agreement with us.
Barclaycard say that they have taken the money under section 8. Of an agreement that does not apply to them!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Regardless the overriding principle in RoSO means if you hold a group account and owe money they can utilise assets to repay it within the same group.

For instance; the account that the funds were paid OUT of (ie your bank account) is where the RoSO term will be, stating they can use funds from that account to repay other group debt.

[Enforcer]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Sorry Niddy, but still confused over how they can use set off when; There is no executed agreement, and section 59 CCA 1974 states the agreement is void.
The retail banking conditions state that this agreement does not apply to Barclaycard section 1.3. Even if they had a separate agreement, Section 16.3 of Barclaycards agreement states we may use money in your other Barclays accounts to pay us.
When you had to have a Barclays Bank Account in order to obtain a card this may well have been a valid term of contract, but since they started giving out cards to non account holders I believe that this is in breach of "Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.
This term cannot be fairly applied to all customers and is discriminatory to their own Barclays Bank customers.
I have reported this to OFT.

How could they "legally" continue to use set off when they have no contract

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

How could they "legally" continue to use set off when they have no contract

They did and they do. Check your bank account terms, it's in there NOT necessarily in the CC terms.

I'm just telling you the way it is, the FOS also stand by the way I describe so no matter what, unless you sued the bank, you'd always lose and even then case law would strip any fight you had down to next to nothing....

Sorry, just the way it is. Terms are not as plain as 1,2,3.... they interlink and one supersedes another etc which can both be lost in court or via FOS intervention - messy things IMO, are terms.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Barclaycard raided my bank account!

Fraid offset is allowed, lesson is do not put all your eggs in one basket, try to spread them out into companies with no ties in any particular group.

Unfortunatly like many of us use to be loyal customers using many different business items in one place, those days have gone now, we have to cover our asses, as the crooks ( alledged) have nothing but greed in their sites.