Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

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Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

This is a duplicate of the Blog Entry made on 6th May 2013 09:19.

People living abroad will no longer be entitled to a British state pension based solely on their spouse's work history, under government plans....

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[PlanB]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Why is it always women who suffer most when it comes to pension reforms You give up work to bring up a family because your husband wants to have a career. I don't see why you should be punished in your old age for doing such an essential unpaid job It shouldn't matter where in the world you choose to live in your retirement.

[ken100464]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Think you read that wrong tbh.

Its about someone marrying someone from another country who has possibly never been here then claiming a pension on the British spouses NI contributions.

Nothing wrong with this at all. Talks about a bloke who marries a filipina lives in the philippines but she gets a married womans allowance. He chose to live abroad somewhere vastly cheaper than here.

Why should the british taxpayer subsidise his wife? or his lifestyle choice?. For me bonkers they even do this. Bit like foreign aid. £410 million could be used to do something worthwhile in this country.

[PlanB]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Nothing wrong with this at all. Talks about a bloke who marries a filipina lives in the philippines but she gets a married womans allowance. He chose to live abroad somewhere vastly cheaper than here.

Why should the british taxpayer subsidise his wife? or his lifestyle choice?. For me bonkers they even do this. Bit like foreign aid. £410 million could be used to do something worthwhile in this country.

Because her husband has been a british taxpayer all his working life. That's why National Insurance is called that. It's an 'insurance' scheme you pay into for 50 or more years and when you get old it pays out - just like any other insurance policy.

I see it differently. Why should her husband pay towards a pension for someone else's wife who lives in the UK and has never done a day's work in her life.

[ken100464]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

You give up work to bring up a family because your husband wants to have a career. I don't see why you should be punished in your old age for doing such an essential unpaid job .

Hmmmmm

"I see it differently. Why should her husband pay towards a pension for someone else's wife who lives in the UK and has never done a day's work in her life. "

So you prefer the money to go to someone who has and never will set foot in the UK because the spouse made a choice to live where he does as opposed to the person who as you say has been bringing up the next generation of taxpayers to fund our retirement.

This isnt about an economic benifit to our country its about someone who has opted out, using the system to obtain cash to further a lifestyle of their choice. And because we are such muppets we think its fair and reasonable when there is so much £410 million could do in our country to help our fellow citizens.

Barking it happens if you ask me.

[PlanB]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

So you prefer the money to go to someone who has and never will set foot in the UK because the spouse made a choice to live where he does as opposed to the person who as you say has been bringing up the next generation of taxpayers to fund our retirement.

This isnt about an economic benifit to our country its about someone who has opted out, using the system to obtain cash to further a lifestyle of their choice. And because we are such muppets we think its fair and reasonable when there is so much £410 million could do in our country to help our fellow citizens.

No. I say both wives should get a pension.

I wish I could believe your assumption that the wives living in the UK are bringing up the next generation of taxpayers and not benefit claimants which cost the UK £168 billion last year.

[ken100464]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Think most wives would be insulted by your comment.

I just know I would rather put £410 million into sick children, hospitals, industry, jobs, roads, schools, defence, enviroment, housing etc etc etc For this country. Our future our kids future.

You dont. Fairy nuff.

[PlanB]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Think most wives would be insulted by your comment.

I just know I would rather put £410 million into sick children, hospitals, industry, jobs, roads, schools, defence, enviroment, housing etc etc etc For this country. Our future our kids future.

You dont. Fairy nuff.

I am both a "wife" and a pensioner which is why I feel so strongly about the topic

In your fairytale world all women living in the UK bring up children who will all be taxpayers to fund hospitals and noble causes (defence budget excepted). In reality that doesn't happen.

In contrast a woman living abroad cannot claim UK state benefits if she falls on hard times so she is not a drain on the UK economy. There is no Housing Benefit in the Philippines. Nor do women resident abroad have access to the NHS where they live (except in certain EU states).

Nevertheless most ex-pats pay some UK tax on their incomes and pensions earned in the UK (CGT etc) even if they never set foot in the UK ever again. In some cases they pay taxes in both countries.

I've always viewed the world as a Global Village and I personally don't like it when the UK disowns its citizens abroad when it suits the politicians.

[ken100464]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

As a taxpayer with a sick child I know who deserves the money and who doesnt.

And it aint a filipina wife. Whatever the husband did.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Here, here Plan B, bet my wife would agree, I paid 48+ years, I get a Pension, people here now need 30 years contributions, worked or not, I happen to marry a forigner and been in the Phillipines ,( Cheaper ? ) in theory, not in practice to any great extent ( I know I have spent time there paying everyday expences including food / water / electricity /rates etc -= dear as here ,etc etc on a state pension amount, nothing left until next pay day,. A marriage is family Unity (United Nations signed, (UK being one of the last that signed as held out), so if a UK person marries another countries citizen then that person is part of the family unit, and should get what the others here get.

Also electric bill once a month, if not paid within 7-10 days = no messing "Cut Off".

[julian]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

The rules have changed and the format needs to change further, as there are too many loopholes at present. There used to be the premise that a pension was for a man and a woman where the man works and the woman takes on a homemaker role after marriage, retiring at the age of 65 to live for a few years in the country cottage surrounded by grandchildren. Not now.

Since April 2010 the spouses of women and same sex civil partners can take advantage of their spouse's NI contributions for the spouse's pension if they have not enough for a pension in their own right.

This has opened the door to many spouse being entitled to a pension e.g. when a contributor retires abroad and "marries" a local native who could be 40 years their junior, they can be lifted out of poverty. The full pension is payable on the death of the contributor. So this loophole is open to an even wider population. e.g. I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry, where to straight guys marry for the benefits.

The is also the arranged marriage where the husband comes to work in the UK and returns every year or so to the "wife" in native country. There may be more than one wife in some circumstances. Whereas in the UK there is also a 'family' life. Who gets pensions?

In addition NI contributions can be paid by the self-employed or the dubiously employed at a weekly rate far lower than the benefits that it provides. So there may be many employers with phantom employees on their list able to draw pensions for themselves and their spouses.

[SXGuy]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Theres too many things that need reform, this is one of them.

Tax allowance thresholds are increasing each year, while N.I thresholds are decreasing by the same amount.

Government talk about more people being lifted out of tax, but the truth is, more people are being brought in to National Insurance Contributions.

That along side retirement age increasing, my generation will be paying more, over a longer period, for less. And i would bet it will be less, I laugh at anyone thinking we will get more state pension as a result.

Should women who are married to a man who worked all his life here, get a pension if they move overseas....yes.

Should a woman who married a foriegner and moved overseas? hmm, only if she contributed in my opinion.

Why the hell we send Winter Fuel Allowance abroad to ex pats is beyond me as well, i can imagine 200-300 quid goes a longer way in sunny benidorm than it does here!

[Streetwise]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

Well here is my lot for what its worth myself and my partner lived together for 16 years had two children and we were all very happy,she died two and a half years ago because we were not married i don't get any of her pension,and i have to bring up both of our children one aged seven and one aged thirteen.

Yes we could do with the pension but the pension people just stuck two fingers up to me.

When i asked what would happen to her pension they said it just goes back in the pot.

Must be to pay for these spouses abroad.

[julian]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

I am sorry for your loss.

"myself and my partner lived together for 16 years had two children "

Judging by the age of your children I assume she was not of pensionable age (60+) and you are referring to a Widows'/widowers' pension. There is now no 'legal' forced retirement at 65/60 as there was until a few years ago, but pensions are still based around that. You cannot get a retirement pension unless you are of pensionable age or when your spouse is under pensionable age but is dependent on you financially. This is based on a married couple being a unit and the breadwinner having retired.

The retirement pension is one of the only benefits for which you must prove marriage. The original pension assumed marriage if you lived together and had children. It has moved to incorporate civil partnerships, but not so-called Common Law marriages which are not contractual and therefore of no legal standing. There is currently no social stigma/prejudice against unmarried families, like there was pre-1980s, but it is a personal choice. Previously it was impossible to get certain jobs, mortgages, accommodation,schooling for unmarried families.

Where there is marriage/divorce/remarriage, the spouses have entitlement to parts of the pension of the contributor. If no criteria were enforced, there would be further problems of trying to divi up the pension between all claimants where there were many partners with or without offspring throughout the lifetime.

[julian]

Re: Overseas UK pensions 'blocked for spouses'

To make it clear, the objection is against people who live abroad taking a pension based on being married to a UK contributor.

Marrying a foreigner and living abroad on retirement whilst drawing a UK pension is not the issue.

The loophole appears to be
-the 65+ year old moving abroad on retirement and then marrying a local and bringing the new spouse into the system; e.g. Thai brides
-the 65+ year old having a long-distance marriage where the contributor lives in the UK but the spouse has always lived abroad; e.g. Indian/ subcontinent/European migrant workers
-the 65+ year old working abroad with a UK firm paying UK contributions and having a non-UK local family. e.g. banker in Singapore

However, where a person has paid into the UK or another country's pension/social service system, the contributions are only valid for a certain length of time and then they are lost. Say a Spanish worker has worked for 14 years and comes to UK at 40 to work, and works for 25 years. They will only receive 25 years UK pension, and lose their Spanish pension as they have no contributions in the past 2 years and have not 15 years of contributions. If the UK worker does the reverse, they will also lose their UK state pension.