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**vint1954** · 9 May 2013, 19:27

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Hi Mark and welcome again.

If you lay out your diary for each debt as below, it will aid help in your situation.

Type of account (credit card/loan)
Date commenced (ideally before Apr 2007)
Approx balance
Date last paid (approximate date you last made a FULL payment)
Are you on arrangement or not paying
Status (default/in arrears/up-to-date)
Account owner (who is writing to you, a DCA or the lender)

Providing the above information, for each account helps us.

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 19:33

Re: mark.1980's diary!

JD Williams

I was paying out over £70 a month, until I decided to contact them.

02-02-2013 - Sent letter specifying financial difficulty, requested charges refunded and Interest to stop
02-02-2013 - Sent SAR recorded delivery, with £10 postal order (they received11-02-2013)
22-02-2013 - Received reply I needed to confirm my home address
02-03-2013 - Sent letter and their DCA letters to confirm my address
27-03-2013 - Received reply they were processing my request
09-04-2013 - Received SAR with CCA and other info missing
16-04-2013 - Sent CCA request (they received 19-04-2013)
03-05-2013 - Deadline for CCA passed
08-05-2013 - Composed letter to send:

Code:

Final Response
Dear Sir/Madam,
I write with reference to previous correspondence, and in particular to the above numbered account which, for ease and clarity, I hereby deem unenforceable in line with s.127(3) CCA(1974) and this letter is my final response on the matter.
On the 16th of April 2013 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/78, copy enclosed. This was signed for as delivered to you on the 19th of April 2013, proof enclosed, with that request was a postal orderin the sum of £1.00, which represents the statutory fee. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 3rd of May 2013.
I genuinely expected to receive an exact copy of that which you hold in your records i.e. an actual "replica" of the agreement which is allegedly signed by myself and your representative. To date, no agreement has been sent and as a result this account is unenforceable in line with s.127(3) Consumer Credit Act 1974. In line with current legislation, namely s.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which, for ease and clarity, is quoted below;
127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).
As is clear from the above, without an original "true copy" of the signed agreement encompassing the prescribed terms and duly containing my name and address, this account is lawfully deemed unenforceable and no formal action can be taken so long as this remains the case. Please do not waste my, or your time by fighting this lost cause any longer. Even the recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA. Yes, you are allowed to report the account "conduct" to the Credit Reference Agencies, but you may not enforce this agreement until you fully comply with the provisions set out within the Act, taking into account the recent Judgments and the history and case notes within said judgments. Unless you can satisfy my s.78 request in full by providing me a copy of the alleged original "compliant" agreement, then I have nothing left to say to you.
There are several recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement. In Murphy v Cabot the recorder, Nigel Clayton, found the copy of the agreement was illegible. Similarly, in Paterson v Cabot Judge Russell decided the copy of that agreement was illegible, the terms and conditions were not the ones originally supplied. In both the Cabot cases they lost as they had clearly failed to produce a properly reconstituted document.
Also, in line with the most recent OFT Guidance surrounding unenforceability (October 2010), you should be aware that the OFT has stipulated the following; to which I require that you clarify your position on this point as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter to which an appropriate complaint will be made to the OFT.
Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:
a copy of their agreement
copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:
make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
get a court judgment against the debtor

As the account is clearly unenforceable, I do not expect to hear from you again unless you bring the account out of default and correct your previous errors. I have no intentions of responding to you unless you comply with my original request. I therefore consider this account closed and no further correspondence should take place; irrespective, unless you do supply a copy of the original agreement I will not correspond with you again. Any threats will be averred and unlawful and vexatious with a counter-claim forthcoming.
Yours faithfully,

Catalogue - JD Williams
2nd of May 2011 - Account set up date
£1750 - Approx balance
February 2012 Last payment made to them
Not paying anything until an agreement set up
Currently in arrears
In contact with JD Williams and Reliable collections, so same thing

**Never-In-Doubt** · 9 May 2013, 19:41

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Hi when was the above taken out?

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 19:45

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Took a while, but got most of the details up! lol

I guess wording in the letters matters as well, but as the first lot were standard, decided to use a template I found on this site to reply

Housemate is sending it in the morning.

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 19:46

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Must of just missed my edit

02-05-2011 was when the account was set up

**Never-In-Doubt** · 9 May 2013, 19:50

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Ok forget UE with that then. You'll need to look at alternatives there sadly.

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 20:07

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Ok, so what about the letter I send to them?

Should I use a different letter?

**vint1954** · 9 May 2013, 20:11

Re: mark.1980's diary!

I would wait to see what they send you next.

We can work out the best response then.

When was the last time that they wrote to you?

**Never-In-Doubt** · 9 May 2013, 20:13

Re: mark.1980's diary!

Originally posted by mark.1980 View Post

Ok, so what about the letter I send to them?

Should I use a different letter?

I'd not bother with that. They get reliable collections involved. Reliable dont like me much

Search for naughty little schoolgirl on the forum and you'll see my classic write-off template

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 20:20

Re: mark.1980's diary!

The SAR they sent to me on the 9th of April 2013 was the last letter I got.

Reliable had sent a letter saying they were planning a doorstep visit, which never materialised, and I received a standard email from them that they were going to send out my account statment a few days ago, but nothing at all in relation to any other letter I sent to them.

I issued a complaint via the ICO about the lack of the CCA within the deadline, nothing back from them as yet.

So just send them nothing for now?

**vint1954** · 9 May 2013, 20:28

Re: mark.1980's diary!

This is the letter Niddy is referring to:

Sirs

Account No/Reference No: XXXXXXXX & XXXXXXXX

I am getting sick and tired of your repeated harassment regards the above accounts and unless it ceases immediately I will report your conduct to the FOS, the OFT and Trading Standards.

How dare you write to me quoting such nonsense as "your conduct in this matter is unacceptable and will not be tolerated..." what the hell do you think I am? A naughty little schoolgirl that you can place over your knee and discipline? Well you're surely mistaken as this little schoolgirl will rip you apart if you ever dare use such wording in any further letters to me.

Further, I do wonder what the Ministry of Justice and the Office of Fair Trading have to say about your repeated threats of court action, whereby you clearly state that "further to this all court and solicitor fees would be added to your balance...". I guess you're aware that it is not for you to decide the fate of costs, it is for the Judge to decide on such matters however when faced with my counterclaim for strike-out based on the fact you are in direct breach of varying legislation (s.61, s.78, s.127, s.87, s.88 CCA1974) coupled with the actual original creditors signed declaration that they cannot locate an original agreement, well we both know that these agreements cannot be enforced by a Judge in line with s.127(3) CCA1974.

I suggest you familiarise yourself with other case law regards this matter, such as the Carey Judgment or Hayes v HFC where at Blackpool county court in July 2010 she successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement - This is publicly available information and I suggest you learn it as any future threats from your offices will result in my taking action against you.

I rest my case.

If you ever write to me using any of the misleading threats, language or general mannerisms again then i'll take this as far as I can and report your conduct and question your suitability to retain your consumer credit licence. Make no mistake who you are dealing with here.

Yours faithfully,

Sign digitally

Have a read here

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...hty+schoolgirl

**Never-In-Doubt** · 9 May 2013, 20:39

Re: mark.1980's diary!

That was funny. Especially when they bottled it

ps wrong thread. It's samsmum or something like that I think..?

**vint1954** · 9 May 2013, 20:57

Re: mark.1980's diary!

That will be this thread

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...olgirl&page=20

**mark.1980** · 9 May 2013, 21:04

Re: mark.1980's diary!

I got it

I was reading through pooky2483's diary, which is where I found the naughty schoolgirl letter referenced. Pooky's case seems to be exactly the same as mine (appart from me only having 1 account in my own name).

So, if I were to follow suit with the advice given there, I basically sit back and do nothing, right?

What would be the goal if I were to do that? For JD Williams to take me to court? To go 6 odd years and say state of limitations has passed?

I'm just curious, because although I get the whole 'wait, don't reply' bit, but what is that ultimately for? lol.

To be honest, when I first decided to contact them about lowering payments, MY goal, was to get the ridiculous charges removed, stop any further interest being added, and to repay at a rate I could afford.

I do understand that another option to me is to just say I will be repaying them at just £1 a month for life.

I guess I'm just a bit fed up of constantly having a shit credit record and debts

Anyway, I hope you guys understand what Im trying to say better than I can articulate! lol

Thanks

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