when does an application form become an agreement

[creditcritter]

when is an application form classed as an agreement.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an application form become an agreement

when is an application form classed as an agreement.

After Carey (v HSBC) things changed in that if the bank could supply "anything" that reconstituted the agreement then they could make one up!

Basically an application is rarely enforceable as they do not have the prescribed terms linked to, or on the same page as the signed acceptance. Usually there is no cancellation period either. However, lately lenders will send an application with some random terms and cite "this is enforceable, time to pay up" - if you read our diaries, you'll see we don't listen to this and instead argue with them

Any reason for asking....?

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

thanks for the reply i have recieved some cca`s i have replied to to those that are definetly unenforcable , second phase is some that are applications that they are claiming are agreements i am unsure of the validity off some of those , three or four further to that are re constituted again not sure how to proceed , i am more than happy to take them on just want to make sure i have my facts right do not want a loose cannon bankrupting me out off badness.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

thanks for the reply i have recieved some cca`s i have replied to to those that are definetly unenforcable , second phase is some that are applications that they are claiming are agreements i am unsure of the validity off some of those , three or four further to that are re constituted again not sure how to proceed , i am more than happy to take them on just want to make sure i have my facts right do not want a loose cannon bankrupting me out off badness.

Maybe consider starting a diary and we'll go through them one at a time - if you want?

See this: ---> Unenforceability Diaries - Read me First!

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

thanks again i will start a diary.

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Niddy thanks for your help it`s already paying off sent your unenforcability letter to the ones i am sure about as far as what i have recieved from creditors , first to reply Aktiv Capital they will cease activity on both accounts which amounts to £4000.00 i will start a diary shortly as i will need long term advice as they won`t all be as easy thanks again.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Niddy thanks for your help it`s already paying off sent your unenforcability letter to the ones i am sure about as far as what i have recieved from creditors , first to reply Aktiv Capital they will cease activity on both accounts which amounts to £4000.00 i will start a diary shortly as i will need long term advice as they won`t all be as easy thanks again.

Ahh they will cease activity whilst your complaint is dealt with so it is far from over yet (lol)....

I'd start a diary.....

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Niddy AK stated that further to requests made to the origonal creditors for a copy of the agreements i can confirm that they are unable to supply a copy of the credit agreements and i understand this makes these accounts unenforcable therefore and as such collection activity will not continue .

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Niddy AK stated that further to requests made to the origonal creditors for a copy of the agreements i can confirm that they are unable to supply a copy of the credit agreements and i understand this makes these accounts unenforcable therefore and as such collection activity will not continue .

Ok, so in which case you forget this now - if anyone hassles you then you copy that letter (so keep it safe) and send it along with one of these:---> CCA Query - Letter Previously Confirming No CCA

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Hi Niddy an accouunt credit card HFC before i used these sites i was pretty ignorant of my rights they got an inhibition order against me at the time i did not know anything about how i could defend the action as such did not attend the hearing at my local Sherriff court as i thought no point , since i have requested a CCA all i recieved was a blank application form with my name & address printed at the top & when reading the terms & conditions with a magnifying glass i discovered a date wich was not the date off the alledged agreement they where from a different year, they obviously bullied this throug the courts without producing any documentation to the court that was relevant, knowing it was in fact unenforcable , can i have this overturned due to the fact the Sherrif did not get presented with proof of an enforcable debt , remember i live in Scotland.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Hi Niddy an accouunt credit card HFC before i used these sites i was pretty ignorant of my rights they got an inhibition order against me at the time i did not know anything about how i could defend the action as such did not attend the hearing at my local Sherriff court as i thought no point , since i have requested a CCA all i recieved was a blank application form with my name & address printed at the top & when reading the terms & conditions with a magnifying glass i discovered a date wich was not the date off the alledged agreement they where from a different year, they obviously bullied this throug the courts without producing any documentation to the court that was relevant, knowing it was in fact unenforcable , can i have this overturned due to the fact the Sherrif did not get presented with proof of an enforcable debt , remember i live in Scotland.

Hiya

Did you defend/admit/deny this? You know what an Inhibition Order is don't you? Like a charging order but against you, not the property! (I hate Scottish Law)

Inhibition Order: This is a court order preventing you from selling your house. This is to avoid you disposing of a major asset and not paying your creditors. It lasts for 5 years and then runs out but the creditor could ask for a new order.

If you want to sell your house you will have to grant a mandate authorising your solicitors to deduct the amount owed to the creditor from the proceeds of the sale of the house after paying the mortgage, the estate agent's, advertising and the solicitor's fees. The solicitor will need to pay the money to the creditor in return for the creditor lifting the inhibition, allowing the sale to go ahead."

They should also have also issued the CCJ prior to doing this, obviously in Scotland it'll be a Decree.... did you get the Decree?

[creditcritter]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

i would like something i read on another site confirmed will a reconstituted agreement hold up in court.

[Deepie]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Hi
Depends on whether the PT's were intact...........

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

Hi
Depends on whether the PT's were intact...........

Correct & also whether they provide accurate terms as at account inception...

Hard to say really, without seeing the recon in question & the associated terms.

[Paul.]

Re: when dose an aoppolication form become an agreement

What is an agreement

well what is enforceable in court is easily dealt with by reference to s127(3) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

That section says

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).


so there need be

1) a document, it cannot be orally agreed and must be in writing
2) containing the prescribed terms
3) signed by the debtor

Providing that criteria is met then the court could enforce

However there is still s127(1)&(2) that the court must have regard to.