Credit taken in my name!

[rebelmonkey]

Mr brother who is 24 but who has severe special needs including speech and language problems and autism, has over the last two years taken out horrendous loans ans credit card debts in both my name and my mothers.

I am 21 and am about to go back to University, he has managed to open 2 credit cards in my name (and max them out) he has also managed to completely clear my students overdraft limit (which I had not used).

For my mum he has taken out around 20/25 thousand pounds worth of credit cards and loans.

In his own name he has got about 8k of debt. Most of this is on the credit cards. I am so angry about this.

What options do I have???? Me and my Mum do not want to report this to the police. This is becase he literally could not cope with being arrested or convicted. I am so mad he was able to do this. I am so mad.

Can anyone give me some advice on what I/we can do???? thanks.

[Hannah]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Do you know the total value of the debt accrued in your name?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Hi

Unfortunately the law is clear on this, either you guys have to foot the bill or report it to the police which will then allow the lender to clear the debt from your names.

sorry, no easy answer here but that is the law. Technically, he's a dangerous person - do you know why I am here doing what I do? Try reading this, then you'll see the pain I went through trying to clear my name - it was the worse time of my life - I spent years fighting and only recently won out of court settlements, but that was little old me fighting giants - do you want that? The main difference is I never knew my ID theif - you do, you will therefore be doing him a favour by going to the police cos next time he may not be so lucky.....

Read my bio here - you'll hopefully see the hassle this type of thing does: ---> viewtopic.php?f=52&t=25

by the way, no offence intended but several people on here and MSE have family members with a disability and it is rare they behave this way, I think you need to look at professional help - not forum help.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Do you know the total value of the debt accrued in your name?

doesn't matter - only has 2 choices

1. Police - will allow the lender to write it off
2. Pay themselves - and ruin their own credit and risk him doing it again!

sorry, sensitive issue it may be - but not something we on a forum can help much with. ;F-

[rebelmonkey]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

In total my brother owes me about 5k... Umm I do know that what he has done is wrong. However i feel it is some mitigation that he wasnt fully responsible for his own actions.

If I went to the police to write this off what would happen to him? Would he be looking at prison time.

What proffesional advice could I take? thanks

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

As I said on MSE, there is a law to protect people who take out debt without understanding the consequences. I don't know what it's called, but if you contact CAB/NDL/Consumer Direct they'll be able to help you. It'll definitely cover what he took out in his own name, and I imagine it'll cover what he took out in yours and your mum's names. Basically, if he couldn't understand the contract he was entering into then he's not liable for the debt, and from what you said about the severe learning difficulties then it would apply to him.

You need to get a CIFAS marker put on yours, your mum's, and anyone else he's close to's credit report. You also need to look into getting some kind of notice on his report.

HTH.

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I found this on the MIND site, I'm still digging for the rest of the info:

Understanding your rights as a consumer
Sometimes things go wrong when you buy, rent or take out a loan for a service or product: you may find that the interest rate on a loan is unreasonably high, or that you have had second thoughts about a contract that you have signed. There are positive ways of putting things right - faulty goods can be returned, and unfair contracts can be terminated or changed.

However, if you feel you have been unfairly treated or that you can no longer fulfil an agreement you made when your judgement might have been affected by poor mental health, you may have a legal right of redress.

Freda has a diagnosis of bipolar affective disorder and is currently receiving treatment in hospital. Shortly before admission she spent a considerable sum on buying a new car which she cannot afford. She says she would not have signed the paperwork had she been well.

At these times, you need expert advice to see if you have entered into a legally binding contract. The law says that a contract may not be enforceable if you did not have the mental capacity to enter into the arrangement when you did, and the other party to the contract knew or ought to have known, that you lacked capacity. There are special rules that relate to contracts for necessaries (food, drink, clothing, essential services etc.) which mean that you have to pay a reasonable price for them, even if you entered into the contract without the necessary capacity.

If your query is about financial products or services contact the Financial Services Authority (FSA) (details below). There are magazines and dedicated pages in newspapers providing consumer advice and guidance. It is worth looking at these or using the problem or advice lines that they advertise.

source: http://www.mind.org.uk/help/social_fact ... employment rights

[DVardysShadow]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

.... Unfortunately the law is clear on this, either you guys have to foot the bill or report it to the police which will then allow the lender to clear the debt from your names.

I am not sure I agree with this! The debt is a civil matter - it is a contract. It is up to the lender to prove the debt - the OP is not a party to a fraudulent contract, so this is the end of the civil debt - as long as you are tough enough to resist. In a practical sense, it may be that the line iof not quite so difficult resistance is to involve the police - although you could equally tell the lender and let them do it. The crime is against the lender - not against the family.

But it is a tough call as to whether to dob in a family member to the police or to let the lender do it.

In total my brother owes me about 5k... Umm I do know that what he has done is wrong. However i feel it is some mitigation that he wasnt fully responsible for his own actions.

Let us get something quite straight here, you owe NOTHING

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Found it!

http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles ... ty-act.htm

This is the actual law:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/200 ... vision/6/1

[Hannah]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

I think you've missed the obvious here Niddy. The autistic brother hasn't got a single thing to show for it. In fact ont he thread on MSE he's clearly losing assets not gaining them. He also barely leaves the house. I'll post what I just said over there. If the lad is the criminal here or the stooge is not yet established.

I'm also thinking the police might not be such a disaster. Think about it... If he's spent the price of a prestige car and honestly not got a thing to show for it, then where is it?

It's a well known criminal tactic that instead of taking the risks yourself you find someone vulnerable to take them for you. Your brother has been a well chosen stooge if that is the case. Autistics take everything utterly literally, so threatening someone with autism often has a great deal more impact than threatening someone who is vulnerable in another way- say- a teenage single Mum. If your local teenage scroats tell the average teenage single Mum if she doesn't get a credit card that you'll kill her and she's likely to treat that with a pinch of salt (unless of course said teenage scroats happen to include a well known serial killer anyway). If they tell it to someone with autism and then the message reaches home as EXACTLY what will happen. Your brothers autism, as sickening as this is, makes him an almost ideal target to be used to generate fraudulent income because he will believe what he's told when other people wouldn't. That means the number of people who could be taking advatage of him is not limited to the usual heavies, it could be anyone in a very broad range of petty criminals, he's just such a soft target as to be seen as a walk in the park.

Of course silencing him is just as straightforward, the puppeteer need simply say that if he ever tells anyone *insert very bad thing here* will happen. You're really up against it here, you have to find a way to counter whatever threat hs is responding to before you can get him to disclose it... If indeed there WAS a threat, but well in excess of £30k can't just disappear. So right now I'm thinking your brother more likely the victim than the instigator here.

If he has a social worker, a psychologist or other professional with autism experience then they might be able to encourage him to be a little more open about how this has happened. To get thier help though means you are going to have to be open about what just happened.

So there sits your real quandry. Not what to do with a five figure sum you haven't got (that's comparitively easy) but whether you believe your brother is the victim (in which case it's going to have to be official involvement) or whether you view him as the perpetrator, in which case you may want to chose to try to sheild him.

See, £5k vanishing, that I can see. £30k+??? I think he's more then likely been a victim of someone else and if that's right you're not going to be able to protect him without taking it through the law.

I mean, look at it from thier point of view, a few years from now he's still not told anyone who put him up to it, his mum's gone bankrupt to protect him and his little brother's off in some far away place making a career... Does he look more suitable for another go or less suitable? (Hint: It aint less).

I know very little about the rules and regs on credit, for that I rely on very clever people you Niddy. What I do know a bit about though is the fragilities of humans. I would urge you to have a rethink on this, I think the evidence suggests the true criminals aren't anyone in rebelmonkeys family.

When you say to an autistic "I'm dying for a coffee" it scares the hell out of them, they think you're actually going to die. No amount of education puts that right either. So imagine saying to one "you owe me £30k and if you don't get it I'll kill you". "Yeah right, fuck off" is not an answer that would ever be on the cards.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

The law says that a contract may not be enforceable if you did not have the mental capacity to enter into the arrangement when you did, and the other party to the contract knew or ought to have known, that you lacked capacity.

sorry I was aware of the above but the fact the OP mentioned autism/speech problems I did not see that as falling under the severely mentally disabled bracket ergo the above would not apply.

If i'm mistaken and the brother does have a professionally diagnosed "qualifying" illness then yes - look at more formal options including MIND. My apologies ;P-;

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Not your fault Niddy, on the original post on MSE it said he had severe learning difficulties, including speech and language problems and autism, and you wont have seen that.

Certainly if, as Hannah has pointed out, he was being manipulated into taking on the debt then avenues like incapacity need to be checked out. And as the OP said he's terrified of going to CAB because he didn't realise what he was doing then that all adds weight to it.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

Mr brother who is 24 has over the last two years taken out horrendous loans ans credit card debts in both my name and my mothers. He has managed to open 2 credit cards in my name (and max them out) he has also managed to completely clear my students overdraft limit. He has taken out around 20/25 thousand pounds worth of credit cards and loans. In his own name he has got about 8k of debt. Most of this is on the credit cards.

Now, i've re-jigged the OP's post into a more legible explanation - and please do not shoot the messenger here - have a read of the above quote (mixed up). Tell me what you see wrong with that picture?

It has been done with the mind of someone that knew what they were doing; for instance taking the odd card etc can be easily fooled but with the tools in place now (that lenders use), including National Hunter, I am sorry but the guy must be a genious because his memory is phenonemal. If you get the date of employment, or any other minor detail wrong on an application then N Hunter will flag it to the lender who usually reject such applications.

The fact he has been able to take so much credit is testament to my claim that from reading between the lines, he either had help or knew what he was doing, mentally. There is a difference, I am suggesting that he cannot plead he didn't know what he was doing because they will come straight back and say yes he did - for him to pass soooo many security hurdles set in place on all new applications for credit.

He'd have had to pass the name/address/dob validation, plus electoral register, plus employment, plus know your bank details, plus known how to get them to pay the funds into his bank - the list goes on and on. He'd also have to intercept post and know which post to intercept....

I am sorry to sound harsh but I don't see this as a typical case at all, and neither would the lenders or arbitration services.

[Ames]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

But the criteria isn't whether or not he knew how to take out credit, it's whether he knew what taking it out meant. If he didn't realise he had to pay it back, or that his family would get in trouble, then he wasn't mentally capable of taking it out. In fact, I'd say that his autism makes it more likely that he'd have no problem with the filling in forms/remembering details/following procedures, and no understanding of what those forms actually meant. But all that's just speculation.

I think the OP needs help from more qualified people than us, in particular any medical people involved in the brother's health need to be spoken to about whether they think he was capable of understanding the commitment he was making. This is going to be very complex, involving lots of different branches - medical, debt, banks, police... It needs someone to sit down with all the details and be able to ask questions face to face.

I'd also suggest that the OP go to more than one advice agency, I've found that even with a fairly straightforward case involving benefits and debt different agencies treat the same circumstances differently, and have different ways of applying the same rules.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Credit taken in my name!

But the criteria isn't whether or not he knew how to take out credit, it's whether he knew what taking it out meant.

Well of course he knew what it meant, that is why I explained earlier what the lender will argue against - the fact he knew how to intercept post; he knew to be sneaky etc - i.e. it all boils down (sorry for not spelling it out lol) to the fact he knew it was wrong. Ergo, he will be exempt from the laws that protect these vulnerable people....

Sorry, just saying I can see this from the lenders argument in that I know what they'll be saying in response to the claims.... point is, it was not a one off and it was such a diverse range - ie why did he do it to himself, his mum and brother? It doesn't make sense, he'd have known it was wrong - otherwise he'd have been found out long before it got this bad and maxed out - he'd also have hidden his gains, i.e. whatever he spent on the cards.

Listen i'm all for helping the lad out but I can see the fight that will come back, therefore it would be best to get specialist help - this will just make matters worse cos we're not privvy to full facts. ;Hmm