Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

[Shadow2981]

In light of the recent case against Lloyds for unfair overdraft charges - I have realised that I could be owed a substantial amount of money - and assistance in getting it back would be hugely appreciated.

I have 4 accounts from which to claim back on from dates somewhere betweeen 2001 - 2008.

Without breaking down all of the individual charges, here is summary of what I am owed - with and without the 8% APR compound interest (added on a per charge basis - not to the end total).

Account #1:

Without any interest: £5,596.00
With 8% interest: £9,351.75

Account #2:

Without any interest: £255.00
With 8% interest: £412.83

Account #3:

Without any interest: £270.00
With 8% interest: £439.88

Account #4:

Without any interest: £230.00
With 8% interest: £395.40

Grand Totals:

w/o interest: £6,351.00
w interest: £10,599.86

I am not really sure how to best approach this.. as both totals exceed maximum small claims (or has it been increased to £10k now?) - and I know I can't afford any cock-ups if going above small claims as it's an entirely different game then - so professional advice please??!

EDIT: The charges accounted for are:

Overdraft Excess Fees
Overdraft Usage Fees
Unpaid S/O
Unpaid D/D

I have not included any interest paid on the overdraft balances

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

On top of the above - if this went to court the costs would further increase as the recent judgement also awarded damages for credit file (despite having not defaulted)...

That was for a single account, I had 4, plus 2 credit cards from Lloyds which were defaulted (one of which was removed prematurely in return for partial settlement) at CRAs due to financial difficulties as a direct result of these charges so the potential for damages on top would be vast surely?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

The article etc is on Legalese --> https://www.legalese.org.uk/index.ph...urnell-vs-ltsb

Full Judgment --> https://www.legalese.org.uk/images/f...20Charges).pdf

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

I take it the first step would be a bog-standard letter simply asking for a refund based on schedules of charges, then take it from there?

If so, would I request damages in said letter or warn that I will pursue damages on top of this amount if they force me to take further action?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

I'll ask Bill to pop in and assist as he's the expert at calculations. Sit tight for now

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Small claims is now £10k. You'd not jump in with a legal claim without first applying to the bank and then the FOS. Obviously the Foster-Burnell case helps but Lloyds won't back down all the time and this decision is NOT binding as yet.

Have be you ever tried for a reclaim with the bank / went to the FOS? If so what were the two outcomes? Finally are all the accounts you mention paid up / settled / closed or do any have a debt balance?

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

All accounts were settled and closed in 2008 when I eventually was forced to turn to my parents to bail me out.

At the time, due to credit file hampering by Lloyds, no other banks would give me accounts. My dad again managed to get me into his bank by opening a joint account with me and him for a year - after which his name was removed.

Aside from that SB credit card debt you've helped me with a few times (which has been sold in full assignment so is no longer LBG) I have no outstanding debt with LBG - and no active accounts of any sort.

I have never attempted to reclaim these charges or taken this matter to the FOS - this will be the first challenge I have made... I did complain at people unofficially over the phone and in-branch - but in my SAR I have not come across any notes/records of this - but there is a ton of stuff I haven't looked through yet.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Ok don't worry; you are now bound by time as to when you can complain so to ensure you don't mess up remember that you first became aware of any possible reclaim after reading the news yesterday which showed this case (22nd Sept 2014). That's your official date that you knew you might be able to reclaim.

Before doing anything I've asked Bill to help with the figures THEN (and only then) PM me and I'll assist with the template for refund. It's a slow process but stick with it.

Over to Bill.

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Many thanks!

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Oh.. I DID reclaim credit card charges through a company called i-Smart (which just reduced the outstanding debt) - not sure if that matters as it is unrelated to overdraft charges?

This was after the Supreme Court ruling also though... so the overdraft charges were not brought to my attention - unlike PPI which they hounded me to claim for but I never did lol

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Bear in mind this --> http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...nt-charges.pdf

if you can argue the charges put you in a financial hardship position you'll almost be mirroring the case above hence the FOS may or may not take it on.

I'll post more as and when. As it's been a few years since we did charges reclaims Bill might need to find & update his formula spreadsheets so bear with us. Your timescale is as quoted by the FOS

six years from the event the consumer is complaining about (or - if later - three years from when the consumer knew, or could reasonably have known, they had cause to complain).

Source --> http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...volved_a7.html

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Oh.. I DID reclaim credit card charges through a company called i-Smart (which just reduced the outstanding debt) - not sure if that matters as it is unrelated to overdraft charges?

This was after the Supreme Court ruling also though... so the overdraft charges were not brought to my attention - unlike PPI which they hounded me to claim for but I never did lol

its unrelated. Forget that.

[Bill-K]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Hi Shadow, I got Niddy's nudge. FWIW, I have commented in FaceBook:
" I believe that - although this case cannot yet be used as a caselaw precedent - it can still be referred to in other similar cases. However, I think it would be up to the judge in each individual case to decide if it has any bearing. I look forward to hearing if the claim that Lloyds' Terms & Conditions are generally unfair is eventually upheld, as that would probably re-open the gates to many, many claims for unfair charges to be refunded.
It is good to see something beneficial to consumers coming from EU law."
I'm more of a figures man than a legal guy, but I agree with Niddy that there are some steps to be taken before resorting to litigation. As Shadow has surmised - an informal preliminary letter ('Prelim') requesting that they consider refunding the charges in the light of this Lloyds case, and suggesting that they open a dialogue between you - would be the first stage. If they respond positively, then engage in dialogue - but I suspect they will simply turn you down. In that case, the next step is a formal Letter Before Action ('LBA'), in which you give them a final chance to do something before you refer the matter to the FOS.

I would suggest the FOS as your first port of call because
(a) there is no risk of any costs to yourself, regardless of claim size, and
(b) a FOS decision can be over-ridden by the Courts, but the reverse is just about impossible.

If you disagree with the FOS's final decision, then you can take it to court.

It may be worth considering keeping each account as a separate claim initially, as you might possibly get an FOS 'uphold' on one claim, even if the others are not upheld - in which case, you have good reason to appeal against the other decisions. Additionally, if you do finally have to go to court, then this will make it easier to keep the claim size below the Fast-Track threshold.

What you should be able to claim for are:
1. The charges themselves (some may still be considered fair, remember);
2. The portion of account/overdraft interest that is attributable to the accrued total of those charges;
3. Compensatory interest at the 8% Statutory rate on both of the above.

This will probably take the account #1 claim over the Fast-Track threshold - but that only applies if you have to go to court with it, and you can cross that bridge when you come to it.
My own suggestion would be not to mention any further compensation at this stage, because we want them to agree with the ruling in the Lloyds case first of all - and by making you an offer of redress, they will effectively have agreed. Once they have made the offer, then I believe that would be the time to bring up the subject of compo. Again - cross that bridge when you come to it.
Also, I would avoid mentioning any specific amounts at this stage. What I always suggest is that you make your own calculations (which you have already done to some extent) - and then see what they eventually offer.

It has been a while since I worked on a non-PPI related penalty charges claim, but this Lloyds case may spark up the fire again - so I'll blow the dust off my old spreadsheet/calculator programs and post up here again later.

That is my opinion as a voluntary, non-professional forum advisor - and I welcome the opinions of others, of course.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Cheers Bill

Good post. One thing to keep consistent is the approach as AAD will look after these reclaims as part of a bigger scope of action.

1. Calculate fees & interest;
2. Write to bank;
3. Write to FOS;
4. Issue LBA (on merit only);
5. Issue claim (last resort ONLY if your claim / case has merit).

But for now we need accurate calculations. Do nothing formal just yet.

[Shadow2981]

Re: Shadow2981 vs. Lloyds Banking Group

Thanks Bill and NID, I am not sure if the spreadsheet calculator I used is any good or not but am happy to provide either/both of you with this to see how I reached figures etc...

I haven't calculated the difference in interest charges had the unfair charges not been applied as I don't recall what the interest rate of OD was and I thought this was being a little nit-picky - but if that is something I should have done then I will certainly do so