Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

[panther12]

Helping a friend reclaim credit card charges from Citi (formally The Associates). The account defaulted some years ago and sold to Hillesden DLC with an outstanding balance around £620. Got hold of statements from Citi going back to 2001 when the account was opened. late payments / overlimit charges amount to £660 and with 8% stat interest comes to just over 1k.

Asked Citi to refund and got the usual spiel about their charges reflect a true value of their actual costs, but as a gesture of goodwill offered £98. A couple more letters later and they upped the offer to £290. The charges & int came to just over £1000 and we said we would accept £850 for early settlement otherwise a claim for full amount + costs will be issued. They didn’t budge so a claim was issued.

The claim was deemed served 1 Feb and Citi had until 15 Feb to acknowledge but failed to do so and forthwith judgement for claimant was ordered on 24 Feb.

We’ve now received a letter from Shoosmiths solicitors enclosing notice that they are acting on behalf of Citi and an acknowledgement of service dated 28 Feb in which they indicate their intention to defend all of the claim. There was no defence enclosed only the acknowledgement. Even if they had acknowledged within the 14 days time limit it would have extended the time to submit a defence to 29 Feb, so they are in default of both the time to acknowledge the claim and also the 28 days to submit a defence had they acknowledged within time.

Shoosmiths were probably unaware that judgement had already been ordered before sending their letter and AoS. Should we now write to Shoosmiths pointing out the claim is subject to a judgement order and enquire when their client intends to comply with the court order? I’m guessing that once they realise there is judgement in default they will apply to set-aside the judgement. is there anything we can do.

[PlanB]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

I don't have the answer to your question (someone else will) but I do know that since the claim was for under £5k Shoosmiths won't be able to recover any of their legal costs even if they do get the case back into the Small Claims court and win, which may make them think twice about flogging a dead horse

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Thanks PlanB. Searching the net I see that the courts usually bend over to the banks when it comes to granting a set aside as they prefer cases to be resolved on merit rather than in default. I suppose it depends on what reasons they give for ignoring the claim (probably be: sorry guv, never received it!) but I’ve read that banks will often pressurise the claimant to mutually agree to a set aside without a hearing otherwise they will use unreasonable behaviour as grounds to persuade the court that the other side should pay their set aside hearing costs.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Why did you issue a claim and not go to the FOS? (or FSCS)?

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

To be honest N-I-D we did consider that route first but given a previous experience of the FOS with a bank overdraft claim (hardship), after many months and lost paperwork along the way they sided with the bank so lost a lot of confidence in the FOS. Came away from that thinking if you want a job doing – read, learn & do it yourself.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

I'm the same (FOS against me) however their final decision is non legally binding by you so if they find for the bank THEN you go legal. If however they find for you; no need to go legal.

I assume it may cost more long term if they try and set aside so maybe get hceo involved (think marsdens) before they start playing silly arses

If they apply for set aside you might have grounds to argue it but long term I'd be looking to try and settle pre court so maybe try talking to their shoesmith fee earner? I dunno mate - pm Paul. See what he suggests?

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Cheers NID.
I think it might be worth a gentle prod to the shoosmiths legal bod pointing out that although judgement is now in place for forthwith payment, at this juncture I have not sought to enforce the order in favour of affording their client the opportunity to comply with the court order and prefer the matter be resolved amicably between the parties and without the need for further legal intervention.

Will offer their client a reduction to lay the matter to rest and allow us all to move on and see what they come back with.

[PlanB]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Cheers NID.
I think it might be worth a gentle prod to the shoosmiths legal bod pointing out that although judgement is now in place for forthwith payment, at this juncture I have not sought to enforce the order in favour of affording their client the opportunity to comply with the court order and prefer the matter be resolved amicably between the parties and without the need for further legal intervention.

Will offer their client a reduction to lay the matter to rest and allow us all to move on and see what they come back with.

I expect you won't be putting "Without Prejudice" at the top of your offer letter so you can produce it in court if necessary to demonstrate your reasonableness should Shoosmiths decide to go the whole nine yards knowing that their client will have to pick up the tab for their costs win or lose

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Cheers NID.
I think it might be worth a gentle prod to the shoosmiths legal bod pointing out that although judgement is now in place for forthwith payment, at this juncture I have not sought to enforce the order in favour of affording their client the opportunity to comply with the court order and prefer the matter be resolved amicably between the parties and without the need for further legal intervention.

Will offer their client a reduction to lay the matter to rest and allow us all to move on and see what they come back with.

I would consider this route mate, makes you look 'more than reasonable' if it does end up in front of a judge

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

I expect you won't be putting "Without Prejudice" at the top of your offer letter so you can produce it in court if necessary to demonstrate your reasonableness should Shoosmiths decide to go the whole nine yards knowing that their client will have to pick up the tab for their costs win or lose

exactly, - Panther - ensure you add a comment that "this letter will also be shown to the judge should it escalate to court, to show my willingness to avoid more costs and alleviate the risk of abuse of court in line with CPR."

It will let them know you're semi clued up and also quite serious.

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

exactly, - Panther - ensure you add a comment that "this letter will also be shown to the judge should it escalate to court, to show my willingness to avoid more costs and alleviate the risk of abuse of court in line with CPR."

It will let them know you're semi clued up and also quite serious.

Cheers mate. Letter today emailed to their sols and a read confirmation received. Will now await their reply.

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

A nice result, the friend received the cheque at the weekend for the full amount of the claim £1,100. Quite surprised it went so smoothly as I've read a lot of other people’s experience with Citi and they usually dig in and defend hard. Although we had judgement in default I didn’t want to push by going for enforcement as they would probably apply for set-aside and vigorously defend. I played the nicely softly approach with their solicitor and said that although we have judgement for the full amount we will extend our previous offer to their client and accept the lower sum of £850. He said he has recommended to the client they raise a cheque for the judgement balance. And that’s what they paid which is a bit puzzling seen as we would have taken £850, but not complaining :-)

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

well done - result

[di30]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Excellent!

Well done!

[panther12]

Re: Have obtained judgement in default against Citi - CC charges.

Now that’s done & dusted I was wondering if we could also go after DLC.

Citi sold the debt to DLC debt collectors with an outstanding balance of around £620 (DLC applied their own £12 late fee’s etc). My friend had paid about £220 to DLC before losing their job and unable to continue payments. That’s when I got involved and quickly got DLC off my friends back. In fact DLC aren’t pursuing the debt and have admitted in writing that they have no agreement therefore unable to take any enforcement action, but would still like their £400 back. It was DLC who obtained from Citi all the statements going back to when the account was opened in 2001, enabling us to calculate all the charges from Citi which came to £660 + 8% int which Citi have just refunded.

What I’m now confused about is that if it wasn’t for the £660 charges that has now been refunded by Citi, there would not have been any debt to pass on to DLC. Although Citi have refunded the charges do we also have any recourse to go after DLC – perhaps to claim back the £220 that has been paid to DLC when they brought the debt from Citi? DLC are also marking the credit file with defaults.