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  • F&F advice needed please.

    Hi
    We have been on a DMP (with Payplan)since July 2010. On the whole we've been lucky as after a few months all letters stopped and its been quiet since. Due to the fact that we kept consolidating debts we only have 3 creditors for our unsecured debt. Nat West (Triton,) Tesco, and Bank of Ireland (Buchannan Clark & Wells)
    The DMP is in DH's name and he is being made redundant next week. He has been told verbally that he will be offered a 6 month contract with anew employer and we are fairly confident this will happen but still have nothing in writing and even if it does come off it won't start till late February.
    So when we found out about the redundancy we started making calculations and writing to creditors. We need/want to pay our secured borrowing (not our Mortgage) which left a figure for secured repayments.
    We started lower but have now agreed to settle with Nat West (loan- enforcable)at 55% (it was the maximum pro rata that we could afford)
    Buchannan Clark & Wells (credit card) want 80% which we could at a push do as its a much smaller debt (3,500)but we haven't agreed yet as its more than we calculated.

    Tesco (loan - enforcable as we reloaned a couple of years ago) are not even negotiating. The debt is still with them as they lumped all the interest on at the start of the DMP so pro rata they were only getting about £20 less than before. In fact they were getting more than Nat West even though our debt with them was greater.

    We offered 30% saying it was from my sister and increased to 50% but they want the whole amount owing to date. They say the debt is 28,000 and they are settling at 22,000 which to them is a concession as the loan was 'front loaded'
    DH has tried to keep the lines of communication open and asked to speak to one of their managers but nobody got back to us. We have put everything in writing but they haven't responded.
    We have since asked Payplan to put the offer forward but they phoned DH on Friday to say it was a complete rejection.
    We really want to sort this out and have a clean start- counting our lucky stars but even at 50% we are leaving ourselves with nothing.
    Last month we only paid £1 (for the first time, we have always paid our full DMP) as we had so many unexpected bills last month. We will have to come off the DMP now as until this job offer comes through our outgoings are more than income.

    Any advice on what to do next would be appreciated please.
    Many thanks
    Last edited by lindylou; 15 January 2012, 09:35.

  • #2
    Re: F&F advice needed please.

    I would be inclined to do a couple of months on the pound, not getting any money sure concentrates their minds. I would also put everything in writing, absolutely no verbal agreements on F&Fs, you just cannot trust them to do what they say and not pursue or sell the rest

    before you do anything, it would be useful to know what the full details are, how old are the debts, what kind of debts etc. If you can post this up then we can look at all of your options before you do anything.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: F&F advice needed please.

      Hiya

      Why not just send a CCA Request to the 3 creditors - not only will it buy you time it'll let me help you negotiate better F&F settlements.. However it does mean you need to be firm and stop speaking to them from now on in, and trust us here....?

      I just got a £24k loan wiped to a £5k F&F so your lender talks shite - if we can find enough wrong with the agreement etc then we can negotiate lower - much lower....
      I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

      If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

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      • #4
        Re: F&F advice needed please.

        Thank you so much for the advice, its scary stuff!
        I'll write to Tesco & Buchannan Clark & Wells today but they are all within the last few years unfortunately so i'm not hopeful but as you say it might make them think.
        So from now no telephone contact. What if they do ring DH as they have his number?
        We need to speak to Payplan but it looks like we'll be on our own from now. So should I put that in writing to the creditors when I ask for the CCA?
        Also should we continue with £1 or stop altogether?
        Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the support.

        OH and by the way. Tesco have already defaulted us- they were the first!
        Last edited by lindylou; 15 January 2012, 09:47.

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        • #5
          Re: F&F advice needed please.

          Originally posted by lindylou View Post
          Thank you so much for the advice, its scary stuff!
          I'll write to Tesco & Buchannan Clark & Wells today but they are all within the last few years unfortunately so i'm not hopeful but as you say it might make them think.
          So from now no telephone contact. What if they do ring DH as they have his number?
          We need to speak to Payplan but it looks like we'll be on our own from now. So should I put that in writing to the creditors when I ask for the CCA?
          Also should we continue with £1 or stop altogether?
          Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the support.

          OH and by the way. Tesco have already defaulted us- they were the first!
          why PayPlan? We have someone here that does a better job and is also free, a proper registered charity with CCL etc - if interested let me know and I'll send you details.....

          Its a hard one, if you are happy to pay £1 then do it - however I would speak to our DMP guy first, see what he says...?
          I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

          If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: F&F advice needed please.

            Hello Lindylou
            Welcome to AAD!
            Sounds as if you're just realising that the banks don't play fair. They are not interested in you as a person and will try anything to extort as much money out of you as possible when they know you're down.

            Most people (and I used to be one of them) don't question them. You're conditioned to feel somehow "less" because you owe money, so you tow the line dutifully and believe everything they tell you. After all, they're all reputable institutions aren't they?
            Wrong.
            As you read around the forum you'll see horror stories of how members have been mistreated by banks and debt collectors.
            They come on here desperate, and thinking there's no way out. Thankfully there is, and with help from Niddy and the highly dedicated team on here you'll soon start to feel more in control, and able to deal with whatever is thrown at you.

            As Niddy says, if you send off the CCA requests it will immediately get them off your back until/unless they can comply.
            In reality most will swear blind that they won't settle, but that stance can change dramatically once they realise you are aware of the proper legal channels to protect yourself, and are able to point out their (frequent!) errors and maladministration. At this point they are most likely to want to settle for a reasonable figure, as happened above- a very substantial and dramatic success story for AAD.

            Alternatively you may have the best case scenario in which the account is totally unenforceable so you don't even need to make any more payments.

            You'll get help every step of the way, don't be afraid to ask if there's anything you're not sure of!

            kind regards,
            Shepherdess

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: F&F advice needed please.

              Thank you! I'm feeling better already. I guess we just wanted it all neatly sorted out and quickly but we just can't afford any more than we've offered and that's still a stretch and assumes the new job will happen so I'm up for the challenge!
              If we continue to pay £1 or nothing then what happens if he does get this short contract?
              If the debts are enforcable are we obliged to tell them about our change in circumstances? The job would obviously mean we could pay more.(especially if we settle Nat West which we are inclined to do) I guess I know that morally we should resume payments but what's legally right ie what do you advise?
              Do I sound confused? I am!
              I'm overwhelmed with how quickly you have come to our rescue. Thank You!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: F&F advice needed please.

                You are under absolutely no obligation to tell em anything!! Only a court can request your financial details, certainly not some half-witted DCA employee!
                I think you need time to think and learn about your situation. You also may well need the redundancy money for household expenses as life invariably happens. So as Niddy suggests why don't you send a CCA request to each of them, paying either nothing or the pound and see what comes back. When the stuff comes back (if anything does) upload it to Niddy and then we can look at a way forward for you that is best for you and your family, banks are a long way down the list of priorities. Just make sure you pay your mortgage, cc, fuel etc for now and squirrel away any other money for the moment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: F&F advice needed please.

                  Payplan were free and at the time it was just a choice between them and CCCS. We can't stay on the DMP with payplan because on paper from next week our income is less that our outgoings. Is that right?
                  As I said we're hopeful of this other contract but nothing in writing. DH is a bit worried as this company have mentioned doing a credit check on employees although his job is nothing to do with finance. He obviously wanted them all showing as settled (albeit partially) in case they do question it.
                  Good advice I think we do need to step back for a bit and breathe. thank you.
                  Last edited by lindylou; 15 January 2012, 10:14.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: F&F advice needed please.

                    Hi Lindylou,
                    If it becomes necessary, our DMP guy, who is lovely, sympathetic (and on your side rather than the creditors) would go over that with you and get you the lowest payments possible.
                    With regard to the phone calls...either don't answer or refuse to go through the security questions and tell them you need everything in writing from now on.

                    Is you husband's current account with anyone you owe money to by the way?
                    If so he'd be wise to open an account at a totally unrelated bank (called a "parachute account")

                    Hope you're feeling a bit better now?
                    We've all been there, pet, that's why we understand how you feel, and want to help

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: F&F advice needed please.

                      Originally posted by lindylou View Post
                      Payplan were free and at the time it was just a choice between them and CCCS. We can't stay on the DMP with payplan because on paper from next week our income is less that our outgoings. Is that right?
                      As I said we're hopeful of this other contract but nothing in writing. DH is a bit worried as this company have mentioned doing a credit check on employees although his job is nothing to do with finance. He obviously wanted them all showing as settled (albeit partially) in case they do question it.
                      Well its up to you who you use for DMP buy our guy can do things with it PayPlan / CCCS (bank invested remember) cannot.

                      Similarly, your partners credit rating will be irrelevant for jobs unless it is directly related so a company that is FSA regulated (i.e. insurance company) or a bank or any formal advisory services such as an accountand etc.

                      Anyway, if they do ask just tell him to say, "i've just been laid off etc - what you bloody expect"

                      The UK and most other governments cannot pay their debts so the employer would be rather rich saying anything too bad, that said they can refuse employment based on risk so it may be an idea to go on a dmp and show you're paying/managing your finances whilst you're going through changes in your income/life etc - most employers will see this.

                      In fact others in a much worse position to you (no names but the person can add a comment if they see this hint hint) managed to get it sorted with their employer, and they had to say they were utilising their rights as a consumer, and it worked

                      As it should, I hasten to add.....
                      I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                      If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: F&F advice needed please.

                        Thank you both. I'd like to speak to your DMP person. We moved all our bank accounts when we first went on the DMP so fortunately no concerns there. I'm going to do another credit check as the last one showed only Tesco defaulted but asume all 3 will be now.
                        Thanks everyone

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: F&F advice needed please.

                          I wouldn't bother with the credit checks, Lindy. As has been suggested I would ask for the CCA's as it costs only a £1 postal order. (don't send anything now with your normal signature on it). This request is an inviolable right that you have. The credit reference agencies only have an obligation to show correct data and a default may show even if you are on a DMP as that is historical fact.

                          Many know on here that I have always taken the stance, following the first discussion with our solicitors two and a half years ago now, that your credit file will get trashed by the banks and their cohorts, justly or unjustly the moment you enter any form of dispute with them whether your dispute or complaint has merit or not. Its malice and its their standard procedure. I was told to accept it, live with it for the duration, its far better than paying for the rest of your life if they (the banks) haven't obeyed the law in its entirety. I know an awful lot has been discussed about DMPs, IVAs, Tomlin Orders, Debt relief orders and the like. Its a matter of personal choice but the professional advice at that first interview was that a large majority of these schemes collapse at some point leaving the debtor in a worse position than when they started out. Hence its very worth while taking a breather and the time to sort out the exact legal position before making firm decisions.

                          Our cases:-

                          10% F & F on a business OD and loan.

                          4 Credit card accounts. Not paid a penny since 2009. Two have been sold and it is now admitted by both the card company and the debt purchaser that there is no legally enforcable paperwork, the other two not heard a word about them for over a year now. Have the details of a telephone conversation with a manager whereby they agreed that the best thing on the account of one card that the balance be written off and we all forget the whole thing. I hasten to add that I had threatened them with a claim into six figures over the treatment we had received over the previous two years to our decision to take them on and pay nothing.

                          The case mentioned by Niddy and Shep is another success for AAD and its methods. So hang in there and give this some serious thought. Have read of the diaries on here and you will see how these things are dealt with.

                          regards
                          Garlok
                          Last edited by garlok; 15 January 2012, 10:51.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: F&F advice needed please.

                            Originally posted by lindylou View Post
                            Thank you both. I'd like to speak to your DMP person. We moved all our bank accounts when we first went on the DMP so fortunately no concerns there. I'm going to do another credit check as the last one showed only Tesco defaulted but asume all 3 will be now.
                            Thanks everyone
                            Check your PM's and speak to our DMP Specialist bloke - see what he can do.

                            I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                            If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: F&F advice needed please.

                              Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt View Post
                              Hiya

                              Why not just send a CCA Request to the 3 creditors - not only will it buy you time it'll let me help you negotiate better F&F settlements.. However it does mean you need to be firm and stop speaking to them from now on in, and trust us here....?

                              I just got a £24k loan wiped to a £5k F&F so your lender talks shite - if we can find enough wrong with the agreement etc then we can negotiate lower - much lower....
                              Haha..... beat you.... I got £52K chopped in half (joint liability) to £26K and settled in a F&F for £500....

                              Buchannan, Clark & Well are usually found at the very bottom of the DCA food chain.... please follow advice on here and send CCA requests.

                              :-)
                              Remember the mantra:
                              NEVER communicate by 'phone.

                              Send EVERYTHING by Recorded/Special Delivery
                              Keep a copy of EVERYTHING sent
                              Keep hold of EVERYTHING received

                              PriorityOne & CPUTR 2008 (ex P1 CAG CPUTR 2008)


                              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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