Is there a statutory duty to produce proper accounts on a loan?

[Sappho]

This may sound like an idiot question but I do have a good reason for asking.

Under what law is there a duty to produce accurate accounts for a loan? accounts that are not only right but are comprehensible to the borrower? I have read the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (under which I have a secured loan) and I cannot find the clause that says the loan company must produce proper accounts.

my beef with the company is that they produce two accounts:- one the capital account that shows the total owing and a default fee account which shows the unfair charges that they put on. I am paying a monthly sum to reduce the default but although they credit this to the capital account, they refuse to take the amounts of the overpayments off the default fee account so the default cannot ever go down. Periodically, they ring up and tell me the "arrears" are at a serious level and unless I make more payments, over and above the existing overpayment, they will go for repossession.

I have complained and asked them to produce a set of accounts which accurately reflects the true level of arrears showing the inroads I have made to the arrears by these monthly payments but they have written to say they won't do this. I think misrepresenting the level of arrears is fraudulent but I don't know which legislation applies. By the way the so-called default is all charges and not missed payments.

Can anyone help?

[Sappho]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

I have posted on other threads about this. It's a small loan, a second charge on the house. Lender was a former Lehmans company. got into arrears when we made an insurance claim and they took six months to agree to pay out. missed four payments - paid off three payments with a lump sum, went into an agreement to pay off the rest with overpayments each month. Ludicrous charges were added (£115 per month), also huge legal fees as they attempted repossession three times, which over three years added thousands to the arrears. Have got most of these charges recredited to the account - all except the legal fees. Trying now to get them to agree to credit the overpayments to the default fee account since we are overpaying in order to reduce arrears, as this should remove the default altogether.

Current situation is have had a "f*** off" from them as a response to my complaint. their statements are chaotic, no two are the same, they often use different dates and format varies. when I ring up I have asked them for figures and they never correspond with my statements. The default fee account is what they use when applying for repo. so it is very important that this is accurate.

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

I have posted on other threads about this. It's a small loan, a second charge on the house. Lender was a former Lehmans company. got into arrears when we made an insurance claim and they took six months to agree to pay out. missed four payments - paid off three payments with a lump sum, went into an agreement to pay off the rest with overpayments each month. Ludicrous charges were added (£115 per month), also huge legal fees as they attempted repossession three times, which over three years added thousands to the arrears. Have got most of these charges recredited to the account - all except the legal fees. Trying now to get them to agree to credit the overpayments to the default fee account since we are overpaying in order to reduce arrears, as this should remove the default altogether.

Current situation is have had a "f*** off" from them as a response to my complaint. their statements are chaotic, no two are the same, they often use different dates and format varies. when I ring up I have asked them for figures and they never correspond with my statements. The default fee account is what they use when applying for repo. so it is very important that this is accurate.

Sappho. Has your lender actually issued a current summons for possession of your property

You say your lender was a former Lehmans company. Lehman Brothers was dead and buried (bankrupted in the USA) at the beginning of the Credit Crunch in September 2008 so whoever bought the loan book from them will be your current lender so who is that please

I think you're saying that you have had an issue (now resolved?) over fees charged resulting in three previous failed repossession attempts. Were these fees not allowed under the Terms & Conditions of your loan and how did you manage to get them refunded (if you did). Or were the fees added to your loan and are now accruing further interest which is what you now wish to challenge Or are you saying that you're no longer disputing the fees but you are complaining that the overpayments you make each month are not being credited towards these remaining fees and as a result the lender has or will again issue possession proceedings?

Is this loan in your sole or joint names and is the property in your sole name or joint names and how much was the loan for and what date was it taken out?

If you pose a simple question we will do our best to provide you with a simple answer

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

I've now found three other threads started by you since August

Are these all about the same secured loan

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7164

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7180

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ead.php?t=7130

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Current situation is have had a "f*** off" from them as a response to my complaint. their statements are chaotic, no two are the same, they often use different dates and format varies. when I ring up I have asked them for figures and they never correspond with my statements. The default fee account is what they use when applying for repo. so it is very important that this is accurate.

If you've had a Final Response from the lender you can now refer your complaint to the FOS

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

It's a small loan, a second charge on the house. Lender was a former Lehmans company. got into arrears when we made an insurance claim and they took six months to agree to pay out. missed four payments - paid off three payments with a lump sum, went into an agreement to pay off the rest with overpayments each month.

One final question in case it's relevant: was the insurance claim PPI on this loan which took too long to pay out, or was it something completely unconnected but the delay in paying caused you cashflow problems which is why your mortgage went into arrears

I ask because if an insurance company was at fault in any way (unreasonably slow to pay out) then it's possible that you should target them for your loss on the basis that if they had paid out in time you wouldn't have acquired this extra debt (i.e.your mortgage default fees). It's just a thought worth considering

[Sappho]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Loan company was Southern Pacific originally, now with SPV, managed by Acenden.

Yes, the insurance company was very slow to payout and Acenden showed no forebearance and slapped on charges whilst the insurers were dithering and also attempted repo. during this time. However, I have had all these charges refunded - except the legal fees and also had PPI refunded as well less the amount they actually paid out.

The company don't have an SPO at the moment, tho' not for want of trying on their part.

After the insurance kerfuffle, we had one missed payment only as we made a lump sum payment to clear most of the missing payments. We have been in an "arrangement" to clear arrears for three years. The arrears consisted of this one missed payment + their punitive charges + and legal fees all of which show in what they call the "default fee account" which is basically an "arrears" account. As long as we are in arrears we have to keep paying extra. However none of the extra payments are being used to reduce the arrears and the "payments received" column shows no credits.

On the basis of this "default fee account" the company can apply for repo at any time but I do not believe we are truly in arrears at all.

So my simple question is:- clearly, by misrepresenting the level of arrears they are treating us unfairly, (and the FOS might agree) but is their behaviour illegal or fraudulent?

[vint1954]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Loan company was Southern Pacific originally, now with SPV, managed by Acenden.

Yes, the insurance company was very slow to payout and Acenden showed no forebearance and slapped on charges whilst the insurers were dithering and also attempted repo. during this time. However, I have had all these charges refunded - except the legal fees and also had PPI refunded as well less the amount they actually paid out.

The company don't have an SPO at the moment, tho' not for want of trying on their part.

After the insurance kerfuffle, we had one missed payment only as we made a lump sum payment to clear most of the missing payments. We have been in an "arrangement" to clear arrears for three years. The arrears consisted of this one missed payment + their punitive charges + and legal fees all of which show in what they call the "default fee account" which is basically an "arrears" account. As long as we are in arrears we have to keep paying extra. However none of the extra payments are being used to reduce the arrears and the "payments received" column shows no credits.

On the basis of this "default fee account" the company can apply for repo at any time but I do not believe we are truly in arrears at all.

So my simple question is:- clearly, by misrepresenting the level of arrears they are treating us unfairly, (and the FOS might agree) but is their behaviour illegal or fraudulent?

If you have an arrangement in place to overpay to reduce the arrears, surely they must credit it there.

Is the main account in order and up to date?

The only other thing to try is making 2 payments. One to the regular account and one to the arrears.

[vint1954]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

So my simple question is:- clearly, by misrepresenting the level of arrears they are treating us unfairly, (and the FOS might agree) but is their behaviour illegal or fraudulent?

This may be against FOS guidelines but may also be against CPUTR 2008. OFT cover the CPUTR so it may be prudent to complain to them both.

Do they have a current CC Licence.

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

So my simple question is:- clearly, by misrepresenting the level of arrears they are treating us unfairly, (and the FOS might agree) but is their behaviour illegal or fraudulent?

In order to commit the criminal act of fraud wouldn't the company have to be taking money from you to which it wasn't lawfully entitled But from what you say that's not the case. You are making voluntary payments into a negative account balance which is not in dispute albeit you're unhappy with the way the company is allocating those payments. Are you paying by direct debit? You could always make these payments via online banking so you have more control.

This could be a simple case of the lender not being able to transfer your money from one of its accounts to the other account internally. This could either be a software issue or a system set up to deliberately prevent in-house fraud. So you would need to make two payments, one into each account.

[Sappho]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Acenden have a current CC licence but the SPV who own the loan let their licence lapse this year. As they are not currently lending but merely managing a portfolio of existing loans they might no longer need one. I did report them to the OFT for not having a licence.

thanks for your advice - will get my head around CPUTR 2008.

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Yes, the insurance company was very slow to payout and Acenden showed no forebearance and slapped on charges whilst the insurers were dithering and also attempted repo. during this time. However, I have had all these charges refunded - except the legal fees and also had PPI refunded as well less the amount they actually paid out.

For what reason was the PPI premium refunded since you also say it paid out following your claim on the policy Was this a missold policy taken out through a broker at the start of the original loan from Southern Pacific which was a lender who only provided mortgages through intermediaries and not directly to members of the public

Sorry if I'm being stupid but I am trying to follow the plot

In order to apportion any blame it is essential to figure out exactly who is to blame first before it can be put right.

[PlanB]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

So my simple question is:- clearly, by misrepresenting the level of arrears they are treating us unfairly, (and the FOS might agree) but is their behaviour illegal or fraudulent?

This may be against FOS guidelines but may also be against CPUTR 2008. OFT cover the CPUTR so it may be prudent to complain to them both.

Do they have a current CC Licence.

Vint can you explain where CPUTR 2008 fits in here because that piece of legislation is not a strong point of mine

[Sappho]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

It was refunded by the FSCB as the original broker had gone out of business. There were a large number of reasons why it was mis-sold, I don't which one actually persuaded them. I think refunds for these type of 5 year front-loaded policies are more-or-less automatically refunded. You are right, SPPL never sold directly.

[vint1954]

Re: statutory duty to produce proper accounts

Vint can you explain where CPUTR 2008 fits in here because that piece of legislation is not a strong point of mine

It could be considered unfair relationship if the OP is making payments off of the arrears, but the loan company are not allocating them to that account under the arrangement that they have with the loan company.

If there is an arrangement in place and hey are abusing it........