Fraud on my Account

[Jaws2k3]

PLEASE HELP!! I had an account with bank of Scotland which unfortunately had some dodgy money paid into which led to the ultimate closure of the account. I also have a Santander account which I carried on using only to apply for an online savings account, which was initially opened and closed a day later. I called Santander only to be told it was closed due to a Cifas entry by a third party company. Turns out bank of Scotland has registered a first party fraud entry against me, which I am currently disputing. I have no functioning bank accounts at the moment and I'm in a very difficult situation.

1. How long will the first party fraud entry last for?

2. Will it affect me in the future when I try to get a mortgage?

3. Will I ever be able to open a bank account again?

4. How long should I leave it to apply for credit? (I was last refused credit in December 2014)

Thanks in advance.
J

[IF]

Re: Fraud on my Account

Hi Jaws2k3, welcome to AAD, I've moved your post to your own thread for more replies and support.

Best wishes
IF

[PlanB]

Re: Fraud on my Account

Hello jaws2k3 and to AAD.

What a nightmare situation for you!

May I start at the beginning and ask what you can tell us about the "dodgy money" paid into the Bank of Scotland account.

Give us the lowdown such as when did this happen and what stage the dispute with BOS has reached? This may be something which you can refer to the FOS but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I note you say "unfortunately" some dodgy money was paid into your account. Does this mean the alleged fraud was done by an associate who had absolutely nothing to do with you such as a partner or friend or family member who knew your details? I'm not casting aspersions, I only want to help

From my limited knowledge of CIFAS it can sometimes be possible to disassociate yourself from dodgy folk.

PlanB xx

[Jaws2k3]

Re: Fraud on my Account

I was owed some money from a 'so called' friend who paid me back with money BOS have deemed and consequently marked as fraudulent. It happened in September 2013 and was unknown to me til my account was closed in January 2014. I then discovered the Cifas marker in October 2014 and I have been disputing it since. BOS have sent me the final decision letter and not changed their stance. I'm currently in the process of taking them to the financial ombudsman. I am simultaneously disputing the Cifas entry with Cifas themselves.

I'm really worried as I've been guilty of googling any and everything Cifas related and I'm worried if it is not removed it will hamper me financial indefinitely.

Regards,
J

[PlanB]

Re: Fraud on my Account

Common sense says you can't be guilty of a crime you didn't commit.

From what you say you didn't pay any 'dirty' money into your bank account, it was paid in by a third party.

Have BOS told you why they deemed the money paid into your account (by a third party) was in their eyes "fraudulent"?

Are you still in touch with your 'so called' friend and have they explained themselves to you? It's obviously pie in the sky to expect them to admit to any fraudulent activity which could end them in prison but since you're anonymous on this forum it may help if you can tell us what went on as far as you know.

I see no reason why this should hamper you indefinitely. It's unthinkable that you'll never be allowed a bank account ever again. How are you coping for now? If you're in work what's happening to your salary or if you're on benefits how is that being handled?

Niddy (Never-in-Doubt the forum owner) knows a thing or two about this area but he's away for a couple of days. I'll flag up your problem so he'll look at it when he gets back.

Try not to fret in the meantime.

Plan B x

[Jaws2k3]

Re: Fraud on my Account

I made BOS aware that it was paid by a third party and they are adamant that it is first party fraud. I contacted my so called friend to ask him to produce the authorisation he had to transfer the money into my account but he has been very unresponsive.

Luckily I'm able to get my wages paid into my girlfriends account at the moment but it is straining our relationship as we will not be able to get a mortgage together and join finances until this issue is fully resolved. I'm aware not every place of work will agree to pay wages into an account with a different name so that in itself is of concern to me as I want to move to a better paying job.

Thank you. I look forward to his response.

J

[PlanB]

Re: Fraud on my Account

According to Niddy's post on this thread the CIFAS marker should only remain on your file for 13 months although it seems the creditor or bank can extend it indefinitely if they believe the fraud is continuing

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...wfull=1#post65

C.I.F.A.S:
This is a system that records elements of fraud and is primarily used by lenders, insurers and/or employers ultimately to prevent fraud taking place. There are different CIFAS markers, each having its own unique affect on your credit file. For instance a Cat '0' is classed as Protective Registration and would have no effect (it was requested by you). A Cat 4 (application fraud) entry would be classed as adverse in the eyes of other lenders.

CIFAS data can be either stored on your credit file or be 'hidden from view' in which case you have to send in a SAR Request, with £10, to CIFAS in order to view the data. Click here for additional details such as case studies and to see the CIFAS website.

• How long does the data remain?
  CIFAS usually remains for 13 months from date of registration and can only be removed by the lender; or by the CRA after the 13 month period has elapsed if the lender authorised it. However, the marker can remain indefinitely if the lender that registered the marker believes fraud is still continuing. The lender can also extend a CIFAS marker at any time.

[Jaws2k3]

Re: Fraud on my Account

I contacted cifas directly and was told that confirmed cases of fraud are recorded on their database for 6 years. I also spoke to a financial advisor who said the marker can have an indefinitely impact on any mortgage application, as some lenders will ask if you 'have ever' had a cifas marker against you and will automatically turn you down once you declare it, or worse they do some investigation and find the marker.

I am working to get it removed as this is the best case scenario possible. Has anyone ever successfully had a marker removed who can offer any advise?

Regards,
J

[PlanB]

Re: Fraud on my Account

I am working to get it removed as this is the best case scenario possible. Has anyone ever successfully had a marker removed who can offer any advise?

Proving you're innocent is the most logical way of getting the marker removed.

What was the nature of the fraud? You say it relates to dodgy money which was paid into your account. Is the bank suggesting that you were money laundering for a contact, or what other reason did they have for thinking it was dodgy?

I presume the bank did some investigating at the time which should have involved the police, so were you interviewed by the police too?

Give us a bit more background including how much money was deemed to be dodgey. Was it thousands of pounds or only a small amount? If you can prove the payment relates to a loan you made which was being paid back by a friend then that would be a good start.

At times like these we usually suggest you write to the CEO to get their attention.

Plan B x

[Jaws2k3]

Re: Fraud on my Account

Basically it was money coming from a different account (not his name) and was just over £1000. I have been very clear with BOS that it was paid by a third party.

I have written numerous letters to the CEO and other high ranking official at BOS but I always get refered to a complaint manager who writes the most generic responses possible.

J

[PlanB]

Re: Fraud on my Account

What date was the CIFAS marker applied? If it was more than 13 months ago I would think they need a jolly good reason for leaving it there longer.

What is the category, is it "Cat 4"?

This is a silly question but have you asked the bank what evidence they would need to have in order to accept that you were not involved in the transaction?

It would be easier to help if you could explain why the money was considered "dodgy" such as 'proceeds of crime' etc. If it's a sensitive issue which you don't want on the forum then feel free to email me on planB@all-about-debt.co.uk with a copy to Niddy using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

[Jaws2k3]

Re: Fraud on my Account

It's was applied in September 2013 and to the best of my knowledge it is still on their database. The SAR states first party fraud with no category at all.

I asked what evidence they required and passed it on to this friend of mine but he was unable to produce the information.

J

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Fraud on my Account

Hi

From what you're saying it seems it is an old Category 6 - First Party Fraud which pretty much means you are accused (and found guilty) by using an account to deliberately avoid repayment and/or for fraudulent purposes. From your replies above and the fact you're saying you asked your 'friend' for info which he cannot provide, I am prone to believe the bank as I straight away see flaws in what you're saying - and that's without seeing the facts.

I am not having a go - far from it. I am simply trying to explain how these things work. The new name for an old CIFAS Category 6 is now referred to as Misuse of Facility (link -> https://www.cifas.org.uk/what_are_th...pes_cifas_uses)

Misuse of Facility – Obtaining an account/policy or other facility with the deliberate intent of using that facility for a fraudulent purpose (for example, deliberately avoiding repayments or using an account to receive stolen funds or fraudulent transfers).

So back to basics, can you please clarify:

1. The money from your mate, what do you mean it came from a third party - either your mate paid it into your account or someone else did, can you clarify who paid the funds into your account (ie your friend or someone else);
2. The money - what was it for, can you provide evidence? For example, if you loaned him a grand in the past and he simply repaid it then say - be brief but explicit with the actual purpose (car sales etc are dodgy as is internet gambling sites, for instance);
3. CIFAS add a First Party Fraud based on evidence from the bank - the bank will never disclose (nor will CIFAS) such info as part of any SAR as it is exempt (sensitive data that can be used for fraud) - so what in your opinion made the bank find against you - there must be an underlying reason?
4. Was the money to be used for laundering, defrauding a bank or similar? (ie a mate wrote a cheque from a stolen chequebook?)
5. How was the money paid into your account? Cheque / Transfer / Cash - how?

If you can answer the above that'd be great. Final point - a Cat6 will remain visible on your credit file for 6 years. It needs to be removed (if you're innocent) otherwise it can have a devastating effect on you.

If you want more privacy then email me and put your forum username in the subject line and I will then ask you more personal direct questions and if you're open and honest with me I will help you get rid of the marker. If you lie then I'll find out pretty quick (I am good at this remember) and then I will remove you from the forum and cease communication - be honest with me and we can help you.

I was the victim of ID Fraud and beat the system so I know what I'm talking about

** My email - webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Fraud on my Account

1. How long will the first party fraud entry last for? - 6 years on your credit record from the last point the fraud continued.....

2. Will it affect me in the future when I try to get a mortgage? - Yes, for the next 6 years at least! After that, no (unless the fraud is continuing).

3. Will I ever be able to open a bank account again? - Probably not whilst you have a CIFAS First Party Fraud - it's not a very good reference for a bank!

4. How long should I leave it to apply for credit? (I was last refused credit in December 2014) - 6 years, but right now I'd be more concerned in sorting the CIFAS then you should be fine again as it'd go pretty quickly if you prove your innocence.

see replies in red above.