Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

[Flossy]

Half a million people are set to lose their disability benefits under government plans.

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith said he was determined to introduce radical reforms to disability allowances which could slash the annual cost by £2.24bn.

Around 500,000 people in the UK who receive disability living allowance (DLA) could no longer be eligible for the replacement personal independence payment (PIP) under the plans, which are outlined in a report by the Department for Work and Pensions this month.

In an interview with the Daily Telegraph, Mr Duncan Smith said there had been a 30% rise in the the number of claimants in recent years, with the annual cost of the benefits soon to reach £13 billion.

Under the reforms, two million claimants would reassessed in the next four years and only those considered to be in need of support able to qualify.

Duncan Smith told the Daily Telegraph said: "We are creating a new benefit, because the last benefit grew by something like 30% in the past few years. It's been rising well ahead of any other gauge you might make about illness, sickness, disability or for that matter, general trends in society.

"A lot of that is down to the way the benefit was structured so that it was very loosely defined. Second thing was that in the assessment, lots of people weren't actually seen. Third problem was lifetime awards. Something like 70% had lifetime awards, (which) meant that once they got it you never looked at them again. They were just allowed to fester."

Duncan Smith defended the reforms which could see people without limbs, including ex-servicemen and women, no longer entitled to disability benefits as their everyday mobility is not undermined by their prosthetic limbs.

He told the Daily Telegraph: "It's not like incapacity benefit, it's not a statement of sickness. It is a gauge of your capability. In other words, 'Do you need care, do you need support to get around?'. Those are the two things that are measured. Not, 'You have lost a limb'."

Ministers are consulting on the new eligibility criteria for the disability benefit system which will be announced in the autumn.

[Flossy]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

In an interview with today’s Daily Telegraph, the Work and Pensions Secretary says that he is determined to introduce radical reforms to disability benefits which will see more than two million claimants reassessed in the next four years.
Iain Duncan Smith says that the number of claimants has risen by 30 percent in recent years “rising well ahead of any other gauge you might make about illness, sickness, disability”. Losing a limb should not automatically entitle people to a pay-out, he suggests.
The cost of disability living allowance, which is intended to help people meet the extra costs of mobility and care associated with their conditions, now outstrips unemployment benefit and will soon be £13 billion annually.
Under the reform plans, the existing benefit will be replaced with a simpler “more focused” allowance and only those medically assessed to be in genuine need of support will continue to qualify.
An official impact assessment of the plans, released this month, reveals the scheme will cut benefit payments by £2.24 billion annually – and lead to about 500,000 fewer claimants.

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The rigorous new process being introduced by Mr Duncan Smith could lead to those without limbs, including former soldiers, having their payments reduced as their everyday mobility is not undermined by their prosthetic limbs.
The Work and Pensions Secretary says: “It’s not like incapacity benefit, it’s not a statement of sickness. It is a gauge of your capability. In other words, do you need care, do you need support to get around. Those are the two things that are measured. Not, you have lost a limb...”
The reform of disability benefits will be the next major challenge in the Government’s welfare reform programme and is expected to lead to high-profile protests from disability campaigners.
Tony Blair was forced to abandon a plan to reduce disability benefits after people in wheelchairs chained themselves to the gates of Downing Street.
Mr Duncan Smith says that the current system has been exploited and abused because of political fear over reforming a benefit for the disabled.
His department will now replace Disability Living Allowance (DLA) with a new benefit called Personal Independence Payment (Pip) which will have tighter criteria and a simpler approval system.
“We are creating a new benefit, because the last benefit grew by something like 30 percent in the past few years,” he said. “It’s been rising well ahead of any other gauge you might make about illness, sickness, disability or for that matter, general trends in society.
“A lot of that is down to the way the benefit was structured so that it was very loosely defined…Second thing was that in the assessment, lots of people weren’t actually seen. They didn’t get a health check or anything like that.
“Third problem was lifetime awards. Something like 70 per cent had lifetime awards, (which) meant that once they got it you never looked at them again. They were just allowed to fester.”
Ministers are currently consulting on the new eligibility criteria which will be announced in the autumn but they now appear keen to begin discussing publicly the need for reform.
Hundreds of thousands of people are expected to lose the benefits which are worth up to £120 a week. Others will have them cut while some of the most severely disabled Britons are expected to be awarded higher benefits. The mentally ill may also benefit from the changes.
Each of the two million people of working age claiming the benefit will have to see a medical expert and everyone will have been assessed by 2016. There are then expected to be regular reassessments. Currently, only about half of claimants have ever been medically assessed.
Mr Duncan Smith is also working on plans to encourage and help more disabled people to return to work. Many people wrongly believe that they will lose their disability benefits if returning to work, but they are not means tested. However, officials believe that other benefit bills may fall if more disabled people return to work once the new system is explained personally to them.
The changes only affect people of working age, not children and pensioners.
The planned assessments for disability benefits are similar to those underway for incapacity benefit. The Government is currently in the process of reassessing millions of incapacity benefit claimants and has judged that almost 80 percent are either fit for work immediately or in the future.
The level of potential abuse in the incapacity benefit system has shocked ministers, who now believe that many people are also being wrongly categorised as “disabled” by the benefits system.
The Work and Pensions Secretary said: “It’s like incapacity benefit, we’ve got to be careful because these are vulnerable people. There has been a lot of nonsense talked about it in the last few months, lots of letters asking about it. It’s now just beginning to seep in what we are doing. There are all sorts of scaremongering going on about how we are getting rid of it, slashing it, cutting it. The reality is that for the most part that’s not true.”
He added: “There is a big difference between what Tony Blair tried to do and what we are doing. Tony Blair’s government tried to attack DLA, just to restrict it. We’re not doing that. What we’re saying is we need to address DLA’s problems, to reform it. We are creating a new benefit, which we think will be better. We are actually reforming this process to improve it.”

[PriorityOne]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Hmmm..... once again, the Gov. misses the point entirely.

I wonder when they'll wake up to the correlation between ADHD amongst kids of the underclass.... and their feckless parents collecting DLA on top of their other Benefits for each little shyte they pop out with that particular "disability".... the most ridiculous reason for awarding Benefit that I've ever come across....

[Flossy]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Hmmm..... once again, the Gov. misses the point entirely.

I wonder when they'll wake up to the correlation between ADHD amongst kids of the underclass.... and their feckless parents collecting DLA on top of their other Benefits for each little shyte they pop out with that particular "disability".... the most ridiculous reason for awarding Benefit that I've ever come across....

I totally agree... People that know the system that have little if anything wrong end up receiving DLA while the rest of the genuine population get told they can not claim.

Take me for example. I had just had my 3rd back operation and had been in a wheelchair for 2-3 years, as well as an illness which has no cure that causes cancer which I was having tumours removed as well. They declined my application (the lady at the job centre help me fill in) and I appealed 3 times! Each time they said "your not ill enough".

On my 3rd time of sitting before the incompetent panel of people that have never even heard of my illness they final awarded me DLA. Yet, you have as you say (and put very nicely ) basically awarding the wrong people and people that are not ill but who know the system! Very sad....

[billypre]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Hmmm..... once again, the Gov. misses the point entirely.

I wonder when they'll wake up to the correlation between ADHD amongst kids of the underclass.... and their feckless parents collecting DLA on top of their other Benefits for each little shyte they pop out with that particular "disability".... the most ridiculous reason for awarding Benefit that I've ever come across....

Don't stop their. Lets also see an end to claims for ADD, depression, aspergers, any stress related illness, bipolar disorder, many illnesses on the autism scale, chronic fatigue syndrome and many more of the so called "designer-illnesses" which are cropping up each year.

And it doesnt stop with DLA, we can also stop money wasted by the taxpayer on other things.


We could also save more money by stopping all this extra unneeded help we give to kids/adults who suffer from things like dyspraxia or dyslexia.


Don't even get me started on the "womens issues" every bloody month and then they also claim unfounded things like post-natal stress. Talking about stress, then we have these namby-pamby army, navy and RAF soldiers, nurses etc coming back from war with yet another made up illness in post-traumatic stress disorder.


I'll have to check the media etc to see which other "new" illnesses i don't agree with and send a letter to Duncan Smith congratulating him on his recent measures, not only in tarring every claimant of every benefit with the same "thieving scrounger" brush, but in making sure that many, many genuine cases may suffer at the expense of catching the MINORITY who work the system.



Needless to say, i do not agree with the tone or sentiment of your post or opinion, but i do respect your right to have it and feel free to discuss my opinion



Flossy, i sympathise totally with your efforts in getting what you deserve but i think the failing lies in the system which is trying to "disprove" your illness rather than support it. But your case merely shows that there are huge gulfs between what one person finds a reaonable "illness and in need of care" and what someone thinks is just "screwing the system". Some people in that system obviously thought you didnt need care, financial help etc and may have thought you were "at it".......... much in the same way PriorityOne thinks all children with ADHD of underclass parents don't deserve it. Yet, you agree with him ? What medical/sociologicall training and/or studies have either of you taken to come to this assumption ?

Sorry if this post comes across as argumentative, it's not meant to be, i'm merely playing devils advocate and having a debate.......... if i am proven wrong then i will admit it and change my views.

100% agree that people fiddling the system should be sought out but absolutely not at the expense of hundreds, even thousands of genuine claimants who will suffer and who is in genuine need.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Billypre,

I am not going to argue with you as I am in full agreement with everything you say, this unfounded assault on the long term ill and disabled has to stop. IDS btw is just trying to score brownie points to make up for his poor showing as MP and party leader in the past it is doing him no favours as he is as transparent as a sheet of ice and citizens are beginning to wake up to his bullshit.

Have you been reading his onslaught in the Telegraph ?

Disability benefit fraud only accounts to 0.5% and indeed DWP error accounts for more than that plus it does not matter how much effort the DWP put into cutting disability benefit fraud because it will always be there no Government can fully eradicate it, I am not saying that is a good thing either but the reality is it is impossible with such a big department so 0.5% is very low and there will always be the few that can infiltrate the system.

Government needs to understand that cut backs start in government and by that I mean no expenses for extortion like £400 for shopping no second homes with all bills and mortgages paid if they need to stay in London do a deal with hotels indeed there list is endless.

Oh and why is there a need to send me replies on high grade paper and envelopes your average A4 will do.

See what I am saying here Austerity but nothing has changed at Westminster get rid of all the bling.

I could go on for ages but this will do for now lol.

Say's it all really:

Benefit Scrounging Scum: Welfare Writing - Detail Matters

[PriorityOne]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

......... much in the same way PriorityOne thinks all children with ADHD of underclass parents don't deserve it. Yet, you agree with him ? What medical/sociologicall training and/or studies have either of you taken to come to this assumption ?

I am a "she".... and regarding the "training", I have a double Honours degree in Psychology and Social Policy, a Diploma in Criminology, am a part-qualified counsellor... and have worked with behaviourally challenged teenagers for a number of years; most of whom have been diagnosed with ADHD and/or ODD at some point....

Both of these are social disorders only and their rapid rise over the past 20 or so years appears to have coincided with a breakdown in discipline (both at home and in school) and a rise in children's rights.... brought in by middle-class do-gooders both in and out of Governments .... What happened after that... was that ADHD gradually became medicalised in such a way that tended to absolve parents of all responsibility.... and as such, blended in very nicely with the Benefits culture.

Please try not to run away with the idea that my views apply to other disabilitities and disorders because they don't . If you re-read the post, my point is very clear.

[billypre]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Firstly, my apologies for assuming you were male, i wrongly assume everyone on the internet is male until told otherwise

So it is ONLY ADHD which you see as a non-illness out of the list ?

My point, although maybe not clear, wasn't directed at your sole viewpoint....... that maybe failed to come across, but what i am trying to say is that here you are dismissing ADHD as a non-illness, and with your expertise perhaps you feel that gives you a higher moral standing to do so, i dont know....... but my point is that we could probably also find very highly respected medical professionals who would also dismiss the illnesses i listed above as nothing more than "social disorders" or some other pigeon holing. So why shouldn't we also add those to the list ? Would you defend someone who had one of the other illnesses if someone dismissed them as "faking it" or worse to milk some DLA or other benefit.... or even just to get medication ?

I am actualy very interested in what you have to say PO so can i ask what did your work entail in your work with ADHD/ODD ...... shall we say, sufferers ?

I am assuming you also completely dismiss out of hand other medical reports claiming such illnesses as genetic, or neurological ?

I just find it always easy to jump on this ADHD bandwagon and dismiss it as "naughty-child syndrome". It feels like people dismiss it because it is newly found and therefor is just made up because we never had ADHD before 1970. Well, we never had Schizophrenia diagnosed until recently in our history and i am pretty sure at the time people dismissed it as other things too........ human nature i suppose.

I mean for goodness sake we used to lobotomise patients with all sorts of mental health problems regularly just 60 odd years ago !!!!! Medical evaluations change, new illnesses are found and new treatments...... i just think it's narrow minded to have a totally closed view on any illness which has been accepted by the medical boards.

Now this may shock you........ i don't actually believe 100% that ADHD or ADD etc are a true illness either but i will fight their corner as devils advocate and keep my opinions open and non-judgemental where i can.

I do actually think that this whole ADHD debate which gets a lot of opinions flowing in the press, media etc ultimately gives the sufferers a very bad ride and seems to make people think that they are the reason Billions of pounds are fraudulently claimed etc where in actual fact, the reason for so many fraudulent claims is fraudulent claimers !! ADHD today perhaps but it will just be something else tomorrow or the next day. The fact is that fraudsters will defraud whatever obstacles you put in their way. They will find loopholes and work the system.

[billypre]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

Billypre,

this unfounded assault on the long term ill and disabled has to stop.

100%

Have you been reading his onslaught in the Telegraph ?

I don't buy papers often :/

Disability benefit fraud only accounts to 0.5% and indeed DWP error accounts for more than that plus it does not matter how much effort the DWP put into cutting disability benefit fraud because it will always be there no Government can fully eradicate it, I am not saying that is a good thing either but the reality is it is impossible with such a big department so 0.5% is very low and there will always be the few that can infiltrate the system.

Didn't know about the errors costing more - that's quite incredible and puts it into perspective........ yet the Govt. will have us believe that fraudsters (and made up illnesses) are bleeding us dry and they have to make huge cuts to massive amounts of people to stop it.

Government needs to understand that cut backs start in government and by that I mean no expenses for extortion like £400 for shopping no second homes with all bills and mortgages paid if they need to stay in London do a deal with hotels indeed there list is endless.

Oh and why is there a need to send me replies on high grade paper and envelopes your average A4 will do.

See what I am saying here Austerity but nothing has changed at Westminster get rid of all the bling.

It's almost too easy to save them money but they are too busy praying on young, infirm, eldrely and vulnerable.

[billypre]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

I bet theres more fraud from things like Back Pain, alcoholism, drug abuse than there is for ADHD in DLA

[PriorityOne]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

[QUOTE=billypre;185741]Firstly, my apologies for assuming you were male, i wrongly assume everyone on the internet is male until told otherwise That's ok... I forgive you

So it is ONLY ADHD which you see as a non-illness out of the list ? That's not what I said.... there are a variety of mental illnesses that are hard to diagnose. ADHD and ODD are not examples of mental illness by themselves but labels to describe behaviour. Sometimes there is another underlying condition that's missed and in some cases, ADHD is given as a "diagnosis" when further investigation/tests are needed to establish a much deeper problem.

This happens a lot in cases of autism, which is very sad. It means that autistic children often don't get the help and support that they truly need..... and are often shoved into classes with ADHD kids because they are all on the SEN register. Also, parents go away believing they have a proper diagnosis when they don't. I have seen happen this many, many times where I work.

My point, although maybe not clear, wasn't directed at your sole viewpoint....... that maybe failed to come across, but what i am trying to say is that here you are dismissing ADHD as a non-illness, and with your expertise perhaps you feel that gives you a higher moral standing to do so, i dont know....... I don't claim to be an "expert"; you asked for my credentials though. but my point is that we could probably also find very highly respected medical professionals who would also dismiss the illnesses i listed above as nothing more than "social disorders" or some other pigeon holing. Yes, I agree... you will always get differences of opinion in any profession, whether it's medical, legal or teaching. I have had/witnessed cack advice from all of those so-called highly respected professionals in the past.... it's just another label that can fool people into thinking that what they are told is cast in stone. So why shouldn't we also add those to the list ? ... because of those differences of opinion. Would you defend someone who had one of the other illnesses if someone dismissed them as "faking it" or worse to milk some DLA or other benefit.... or even just to get medication ? Depends on the person, the illness/disorder and the circumstances... However, it's far cheaper (and quicker) to medicate someone that it is to investigate the underlying cause for their behaviour.... and in some situations, people may have already given up on themselves anyway or, not want to find out the underlying cause.

I am actualy very interested in what you have to say PO so can i ask what did your work entail in your work with ADHD/ODD ...... shall we say, sufferers ?

I don't only work with ADHD/ODD kids.... but in relation to those I do work with, I make it perfectly clear from the start what I won't tolerate from them in terms of behaviour. The fact that kids respond to that (eventually), together with the boundaries I set, speaks volumes in terms of the "He/she can't help it" syndrome often adopted by parents. I also try to find the underlying cause. Sometimes it's emotional (trauma), sometimes it's due to bad parenting, sometimes it's due to spending hours in front of a games console with little human interraction, having a bad diet and/or food allergies.... or, a combination of several. All the kids I've worked with to date have had a combination of the first 4 on that list, which is incredibly sad.... don't ya think?

I am assuming you also completely dismiss out of hand other medical reports claiming such illnesses as genetic, or neurological ? No.... please do not assume.

I just find it always easy to jump on this ADHD bandwagon and dismiss it as "naughty-child syndrome". It feels like people dismiss it because it is newly found and therefor is just made up because we never had ADHD before 1970. Well, we never had Schizophrenia diagnosed until recently in our history and i am pretty sure at the time people dismissed it as other things too........ human nature i suppose. There is no objective measurement of ADHD.... it was merely voted into the manual of psychological disorders in the US by a show of hands some time in the 1980s. Some people believe in it and some don't but whatever your stance, it is prevalent amongst lower social classes and has grown like a virus ever since..... but then, depression and other mental health issues are also prevalent among lower social classes.... so really, questions should be asked about the kind of society we live in and why people are medicated for not being able to cope. Life is grossly unfair to those who don't have much.... but we all know that anyway.

I mean for goodness sake we used to lobotomise patients with all sorts of mental health problems regularly just 60 odd years ago !!!!! Yes, we did.... a prime example of social control there. Ritalin could be seen as a modern example of that though. It's also an amphetamine-based drug, which most parents don't realise when they pump their kids with it. Medical evaluations change, new illnesses are found and new treatments...... i just think it's narrow minded to have a totally closed view on any illness which has been accepted by the medical boards. It isn't medical..... it's been medicalised, which is not the same thing.

Now this may shock you........ i don't actually believe 100% that ADHD or ADD etc are a true illness either Lol.... but i will fight their corner as devils advocate and keep my opinions open and non-judgemental where i can. That's fair enough....

I do actually think that this whole ADHD debate which gets a lot of opinions flowing in the press, media etc ultimately gives the sufferers a very bad ride The trouble with medicalising a condition, is that people become "sufferers".... and seems to make people think that they are the reason Billions of pounds are fraudulently claimed etc where in actual fact, the reason for so many fraudulent claims is fraudulent claimers !! Yes.... I agree.... ADHD today perhaps but it will just be something else tomorrow or the next day. The fact is that fraudsters will defraud whatever obstacles you put in their way. They will find loopholes and work the system. Agreed again... [/QUOTE]

[PriorityOne]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

I bet theres more fraud from things like Back Pain, alcoholism, drug abuse than there is for ADHD in DLA

Actually, there's probably more from middle-class tax evasion....

[Flossy]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

I too am female so that you dont automatically think I am male.

When it came to my case along with my history of operations, surgeons letters, GP letters, carer's letters, details of my illnesses and more importantly the fact that they could see I was wheelchair bound would make it obvious to those people deciding if I was eligible for DLA. I think faking my own illness which was cancer and 5 major back operations and they are just 2 of the illnesses I have would be impossible especially 10 tumours removed along with at least 5 operations a year to separate my organs, etc with "women's problems"....

I have experience with mentally ill children and elderly as a nurse amongst other things which I do not think is necessary for you to know about.

My point with the article I posted was purely for people's interest on the site who I know would find it of use. It was not put on to start an attack on people for noting how they feel. I understand that you have your views and that is absolutely fine but the aggression that comes with your view is not necessary.

I didn't say that 'all children with ADHD of underclass parents don't deserve it'I was agreeing with people just having kids all the time as an excuse to claim benefits. I think there was a slight mix up even though you saw my reply saying what I have just said... I was merely pointing out that it is people that know how the system works that get the benefits when they do not have a right to it and that is all.I think anyone who is ill whatever their illness/disability deserves a fair chance at getting the benefit they are entitled to whatever their background. What I dont agree with is the ones with minor if at all anything wrong with them being able to claim benefits such as DLA especially at the higher rate as well as a load of other benefits which, basically means they are better off this way than working for a living.

You do come across as being very argumentative and aggressive even if you dont mean to.

I do agree that the failing lies within the system but that is obvious.

I will leave you to argue to your hearts content while I focus my energy on more important things.

[di30]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

My son has aspergers syndrome, and is awarded DLA, but alongside Aspergers he has complexed anxiety issues. Also an asthma sufferer as well, which worsens when he gets stressed due to being stressed.

He is not what I would say awarded DLA because of his Aspergers, but his problems that come along with it, where he requires help round the clock.

Every individual who has this spectrum is different, some cope better than others.
In my son's case he had to come out of school because they could not cope or give him the support he needs. They would be ringing me 4 times out of 5 days a week! He used to go missing and I and they had to get the police involved, as he is and was vulnerable.

Same as the Careers, they're unable to provide him with the support he requires, which is why I care for him full time, believe me, I would be overjoyed if this wasnt the case, and that he was getting a normal life of anyone else of his own age.

I had to come out of work myself years ago because no-one could help or give the care my son requires, and of course my hubby continues to work.

He is now 17 and still getting one to one support. He is still having help with everything. He receives no other benefits. Still under specialists etc, has a key worker and so on.

I have an older son and I do not like to compare them, but my son at his age was out and about with his mates, doing what they do at that age.

My older brother mid 40's is severely autistic on the very lower end of the spectrum and unable to take care of himself, has no speech whatsoever, he used to live at home but now based in a cottage with 3 other residents where they all have one to one support.

Not that I am against this new assessment as such, and if things were different for my son, he would not have to go through all this himself.
There are some bad cases out there and others will scab for it.

[jon1965]

Re: Disability Benefit Reform: 500,000 Set To Lose Allowance To Save Government £2.2bn

It is a complex issue, and on first thought my reaction is bloody tories. But when you listen to the argument that someone with an artificial leg who is able to walk with it should not be getting mobility higher rate I find it hard to disagree. However I do wonder just how much that particular example costs the DWP.

Saying that , I am sure we all know people who do not really deserve the benefit they get and some who do not get the benefit they desrve. IF and it is a big IF they get it right it would be wonderful.

Why should I get more benefit than someone on JSA, is it because I am classed as less likely to be able to work and the low rate of jsa is an "incentive" to go back to work, If that is the case, is it any wonder that people try to get onto ESA.

Just a few thoughts, I am 100% behind the welfare state but I do not know how to get it right