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  • thechippy's UE diary

    Hi Nid and all, hope you are all well and great new site!

    I'm now on this journey with Barclays and Citi.

    Now, I received a copy of my agreement for Barclays, which is actually a MSDW agreement as Barckays took over. The front page does not contain the prescribed terms and has no reference to the reverse and it's basically an application form. The rear of these applications at the time were advertising only. It seems on mine and others, the advertising has been reduced / moved and they've squeezed in some of the prescribed terms. We all know this is a c&p, but how do you prove it? This seems to be a common problem with these two page agreements.
    -----------------------------------------------

    Happiness, is screwing over a DCA.......

  • #2
    Re: Two page "agreements"

    Originally posted by thechippy
    Hi Nid and all, hope you are all well and great new site!

    I'm now on this journey with Barclays and Citi.

    Now, I received a copy of my agreement for Barclays, which is actually a MSDW agreement as Barckays took over. The front page does not contain the prescribed terms and has no reference to the reverse and it's basically an application form. The rear of these applications at the time were advertising only. It seems on mine and others, the advertising has been reduced / moved and they've squeezed in some of the prescribed terms. We all know this is a c&p, but how do you prove it? This seems to be a common problem with these two page agreements.
    Hiya

    Its still treated as UE regardless of how many pages there are - simply respond with the CCA Query letter..... point is they have to prove to you that it is enforceable by sending a copy of the original. Then we compare the linked terms, unlikely Barclays will have the forms etc to enable us to do this so they will make recons.
    I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

    If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Two page "agreements"

      If you are unsure about the agreement then you would be wise to send the lender a SAR, as this has to contain exact copies of documents.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Two page "agreements"

        Originally posted by geekspeak
        If you are unsure about the agreement then you would be wise to send the lender a SAR, as this has to contain exact copies of documents.
        Hi

        Not always, it doesn't no. With most SAR's the CCA is omitted as the lender used to shred them. A SAR falls under DPA1998 which is governed by the ICO who have no powers, they cannot fine a lender like the FOS - so really lenders abuse this and send what they want, in most cases.

        I value your input, but try not to confuse matters please - a SAR is useless, if it was necessary in this case i'd have suggested it.... but I rarely do, unless going for charges reclaim as the CCA is governed by, you guessed it - the FOS meaning if the lender doesn't act on your s.77/s.78 request then LEGALLY they are in breach of an act (of law/parliament) meaning you have a stronger case and can refuse payment, in line with legislation set in place by the CCA1974.

        Hope that all makes sense, basically we stick with the CCA1974 process all the way as that has legal presedence over the ICO.

        As I always say, trust me k k
        I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

        If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Two page "agreements"

          Yes you are correct in what you say, but if the lender has shreded the CCA then they would have to mention this in the SAR, otherwise it is incomplete. Should this be the case then the agreement cannot be enforced (if it is pre April 2008).

          After the recent test cases involing CCA requests, what a lender has to do to fulfil a s77/8 request is getting less and less.

          I am not trying to be argumentative but i have always found that the best course of action is to send a CCA request, when you see what rubbish they send back, then back it up with a SAR to check to see if they actually have an enforceable agreement.

          If it transpires that there is no agreement, or it has been shreded then this put you in a strong position. Whereas they are allowed to reconstitue an agreement for CCA request purposes, if they were to take you to court to enforce, then would have provide the original.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Two page "agreements"

            But you're missing my point lol. If a lender misleads you into believing they do have an original when they don't; they get spanky lol.

            Point is never SAR - waste of time and the fact they omit a cca from
            The sar itself means nothing. You cannot do anything other than get a court order. Stick with the cca1974. Trust me.
            I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

            If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Two page "agreements"

              So what do you hope to acheive?? You send a CCA request, they send a reconsituted agreement, you write back saying the account is in dispute and stop paying, they write back and say that they don't believe the account to be in dispute and carry on with enforcement action, you write and tell them that they cannot do this, they write back quoting SI 1983/1557. Stalemate. Until such times as the claim form arrives on the doormat.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Two page "agreements"

                What are your intentions here? To help or cause confusion?

                I respectfully suggest you go read the diary boards and see for yourself if my theory works!!

                Nuff said on this I think.
                I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Two page "agreements"

                  By the way, UE is all about stalemate! U miss the obvious point.

                  That's what we want. They cannot enforce it, we sit it out and after 6yrs it's statute barred and gone from credit file.

                  After Carey case, we do not go to court - we'd lose, quite simply.
                  I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                  If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thechippy vs citicard

                    Hiya nid and all...... ;Hi

                    So far.....

                    CCA request sent and as is normal with citi - ignored, nothing sent at all.
                    Account in dispute letter sent and duly ignored.

                    Had the odd call and declined security questions.
                    Had the odd letter saying sort it out!

                    Anyway, just recieved a dn which is compliant... ;F-

                    Any advice on my next move mate......... k
                    -----------------------------------------------

                    Happiness, is screwing over a DCA.......

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      thechippy vs barclaycard (was msdw)

                      Hi again,

                      So far.

                      CCA request sent and got back a msdw agreement (if you can call it that)
                      It's headed "agreement under cca 1974" etc, but next to my sig clearly says application form, with no lender sig.

                      There are no prescribed terms on the sig page. The second page sent purports to be the reverse and has some of the prescribed terms, labelled as finanacially related terms and conditions - looks like a cut and paste to me, as the agreements at the time only had ads on the back.

                      The front(sig page) has no reference to the rear page.

                      Been through mercers, calders and now it's gone to "Debt managers ltd"

                      Mercers and calders had the in dispute letter and ALL calls ignored - never spoken to them.

                      Could you advise on the next move please??

                      Ta........ k
                      -----------------------------------------------

                      Happiness, is screwing over a DCA.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: thechippy's UE diary

                        Hi chippy.

                        I see you have several posts, all relating to UE, so I have created you a shiny thread all of your own, so you can keep track of your journey. It will also help NID keep an eye on events.

                        It might help if you do a proper diary - check out NID's post here for assistance
                        viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9

                        Good luck, diddlydee x
                        If happy little bluebirds fly, beyond the rainbow, why, oh why can't I?

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: thechippy's UE diary

                          Thanks diddlydee.... ;K7

                          Anyway,

                          The last letter I sent them was not a template, but one I wrote myself so they realise that I have at least some knowledge on this.

                          Today - result!!

                          Got a letter clearly stating that they can't find my agreement and until such time they do, they can't take legal action... :UE

                          All I need to do now is to wait and let them sell it on to some poor unsuspecting dca. If they can't find the agreement at the time the money is "alledgedly" owed to them, they are unlikely to look very hard once it's sold on!, so I look forward to having some fun with the dca's.... k

                          Will keep in touch.....
                          -----------------------------------------------

                          Happiness, is screwing over a DCA.......

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: thechippy vs citicard

                            Originally posted by thechippy
                            Hiya nid and all...... ;Hi

                            So far.....

                            CCA request sent and as is normal with citi - ignored, nothing sent at all.
                            Account in dispute letter sent and duly ignored.

                            Had the odd call and declined security questions.
                            Had the odd letter saying sort it out!

                            Anyway, just recieved a dn which is compliant... ;F-

                            Any advice on my next move mate......... k
                            Hi matey

                            Sorry for the delay.... you don't need to do anything, the DN was expected and is a good thing really cos now in 6yrs you KNOW it'll be gone from your credit file. :yeah

                            Until they comply with your request, this remains unenforceable.

                            I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                            If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: thechippy vs barclaycard (was msdw)

                              Originally posted by thechippy
                              Hi again,

                              So far.

                              CCA request sent and got back a msdw agreement (if you can call it that)
                              It's headed "agreement under cca 1974" etc, but next to my sig clearly says application form, with no lender sig.

                              There are no prescribed terms on the sig page. The second page sent purports to be the reverse and has some of the prescribed terms, labelled as finanacially related terms and conditions - looks like a cut and paste to me, as the agreements at the time only had ads on the back.

                              The front(sig page) has no reference to the rear page.

                              Been through mercers, calders and now it's gone to "Debt managers ltd"

                              Mercers and calders had the in dispute letter and ALL calls ignored - never spoken to them.

                              Could you advise on the next move please??

                              Ta........ k
                              Hiya, respond with this: ---> viewtopic.php?p=1629#p1629

                              I'm the forum administrator and I look after the theme & features, our volunteers & users and also look after any complaints or Data Protection queries that pass through the forum or main website. I am extremely busy so if you do contact me or need a reply to a forum post then use the email or PM features offered because I do miss things and get tied up for days at a time!

                              If you spot any spammers, AE's, abusive or libellous posts or anything else that just doesn't feel right then please report them to me as soon as you spot them at: webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

                              Comment

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