Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

[Bill-K]

Hi all. I'm just starting 2 threads in here, as it seems the right place - but please move elsewhere if needed. I'm now subsisting on Pension Credit, and caring for my wife who became disabled last year. She applied for P.I.P., but is still awaiting the result of this. However - I had 3 credit cards on the go - all high interest, as we had a cr@p credit file following a Trust Deed (Scottish IVA) about 10 years ago. These were fine until I gave up my driving job and effectively 'retired' on Pension Credit, and I went on to an agreed reduced-payment programme with 2 of the cards, but kept the 3rd one going with no such 'hassles.' I then got a coupla grand from a 'paid-up' pension policy I took out back in the days when we thought we could rely on them, and decided it was worth seeing if we could use this to 'lose' some of this debt by making 'Full & Final' settlement offers.

The 2 cards I had payment arrangements with had about £2K owing on each, and the 3rd one had about £1K. I decided to keep the £1K card going, and offered an initial 10% F&F to the other 2 cards, as I had read that this was a good start, and sometimes was accepted. But they gave me the '2 fingers,' and didn't even attempt to negotiate further, so I decided to pay off the 3rd card instead - and we are now just using it as an interest-free monthly repaid credit card. No more interest on that - so it's good.

As regards the other 2 cards - one of them stopped charging interest, and the other halved its interest rate when we entered the agreed payment arrangement - but after they refused to even discuss an F&F offer, I decided that we can't afford to keep up even the reduced repayments while we were being kept waiting for the decision on our PIP application. I wrote to both of them to explain our circumstances, and offered to pay a 'token' amount of £1 per month until such time as we could find more - and I have been paying them £2 per month each since then. I have explained to both of them that this is to show that I acknowledge the debts, and am not running away from them - but that this may eventually need to be settled by litigation, and I need my co-operation to be on record.

Needless to say, they haven't exactly been helpful, and I want to chronicle this here for 2 reasons - 1. Because I could do with the advice & opinions of you AAD guys here, and - 2. Because perhaps others in similar circs. might also benefit from reading our exploits. I'll continue here with one card - and start another similar thread with the other, if I may.

EDIT: It's here:-

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ts-Us-(2)-Aqua

[Pixie]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

They're not likely to accept low F&F payments while you're still making some form of payment to them. When were the cards taken out?

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Hi Pixie, and thanks.

They are Aqua & Vanquis. Aqua (aka Barclays) accepted reduced payments, and halved their interest rate. Vanquis accepted reduced payments, and zeroed their interest rate - then transferred the account to 'Impact,' which is clearly their own in-house DCA. Neither of them are keen on putting stuff down in writing, and they insist on trying to phone me, of course - Vanquis are worst, as they seem to have a zillion phone numbers they use, so we can't ban them all !!!

I'm not considering these debts as UE at all - just needing to get to a point where they settle for a £1 a month until we win the Lottery. They might perhaps then consider a low F&F, but I'm not that bothered if they don't. I think we just need to let them know that we no longer have the income - nor the ready cash - to satisfy their needs. I guess I should have waited for them to pass the accounts to external DCA's before offering F&F settlements - but wait...!!!

The Postie has just delivered a missive from Moorcroft in connection with the Vanquis card, so I guess we are now down to DCA level. Let the table-tennis tournament begin.

@ Pixie - the cards were taken out around Feb. 2012. We didn't know what was ahead of us back then.

[oscar]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Bill,

Sure you don't need telling this - send a CCA request to Moorcroft. Not to play the UE game - as you say you are not interested, but it will at least stop the calls etc while its being dug out.

They will probably ask for I&E forms to be completed, but I wouldn't be providing this information if it was me.

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Thanks for that Oscar - I seem to be keeping you busy ATM !!! The last time I sent a CCA s.77-79 was back in the CC charges reclaim days, although I often advise peeps to send them for PPI & CPP reclaims - mostly just to get the original agreement copies for claim calculations. So - I am more than happy for peeps to assume that I know very little, and to advise as they would a newbie. I'll treat this thread as the Vanquis thread, and start a separate one for the Aqua card. Aqua asked for an I&E when I originally cancelled the card & asked for reduced repayments, and I filled this in and returned it, but I don't recall Vanquis ever having asked for an I&E.

After a few snail-mail letters and emails insisting on written communication, both Vanquis & Aqua now appear to have stopped phoning. The last phone contact I had from Vanquis was a SMS message threatening a home visit, and I replied by email repeating my reasons for written communication and also made it clear that I do not give my permission for a home visit. It now appears that the debt has been assigned to Moorcroft, and that Vanquis have given up their pursuit. However, although Vanquis originally informed me that the account would be handled by 'Impact,' they have not informed me of Moorcroft's alleged right to pursue the debt. Now, what I have found has often worked for me with DCA's is the attached 'Prove It' letter, which usually seems to initiate a flurry of letters/emails, where they simply send mindless intimidatory generic replies - before giving it up as too much like hard work, and passing it back to the Original Creditor. To me, this 'turns the tables' on the DCA's, as it is me who is giving them grief and wearing them down !!! I am also now feeling that - if the OC's are not going to deal reasonably with me - then I will afford them the same discourtesy, and if they render themselves unable to enforce the alleged debt by their unreasonable behaviour - I will have no sympathy for them. So - UE is now on the agenda in that respect.

I see Oscar's point in buying some time with a CCA s.77-79, which I think is a good tip - but my present plan is to send the attached letter first of all, and see what the response is. If they continue to insist on their right to hound me, then I'll CCA them later - but I am open to other advice & suggestions, of course.

As regards sending I&E's - I originally sent one to Aqua, as I was asking for a payment plan to be set up, and I thought it reasonable to disclose our financial status then. But in the current circumstances, I'm now inclined to agree with Oscar's advice not to let them have any such info. Basically, the circumstances are that through unexpected illness & disability we have fallen upon hard times, and are now unable to repay our debts at anything more than a token amount. No amount of talking or bullying is going to change that, and if I do have to fill in an I&E - then it will be for a Court to see, and not a DCA. Until then, I intend to leave a 'paper trail' that shows I have been honest and reasonable all along.

[MrsD]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Moorcrofts first letter usually goes in hard, trying to frighten the life out of peeps. i don't need to tell you that the best answer is equally hard, I usually accuse them of harassment straight off and mark my letters complaint. this usually calms them down and then I usually explain the situation (in letters) and then they piss off to annoy someone else. So I think if you are aware that this is their modus operandi, you are in control.

As for paying the £1 every month, you need to decide why, you are prolonging the agony, if it goes to court, and you have nothing to pay them, then they'll get nothing. It's a very straight forward situation and you are the guy in charge here. You don't have to protect your credit record, so their main weapon is effectively silenced.

Not a bad idea to send for a CCA, keeps em busy and you just never know what shyte will come back.

Most important thing is you and yours, that's what you have to look after, these people come way down the scale, somewhere around the decision to buy new socks or not..........

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Hi MrsD, and thank you for your encouraging words. I agree that Moorcroft - along with many or most other DCA's - probably have the strategy of sorting the easy money from the 'awkward squad' at the outset, and the 'full-on' scary initial letter does this, of course. I like your initial response, as it also 'announces' that they are gonna have to work hard if they want your money. If they persist with the chase, then I think I may adopt your 'Complaint' stance - but I agree that once they realise that 'we have them sussed,' they do indeed p1$$ off elsewhere.

As you imply, we have nowt to lose as regards our credit record - so we have disarmed them in that respect. Phone calls & doorstep visits are their next weapon, I guess - and again, I hope I have let them know we're not having any of that - and this is where the harrassment stance comes in, doesn't it ? Their last card is litigation - and I'm hoping that I can make it clear that I'm not scared of that either - and that I have some idea of what's what - thanks to all you forum guys. About 20 years ago, I got driven close to a breakdown by losing to a bunch of these shysters, and I decided to get 'tooled up' after that - as you and so many of us have done. I learned a lot during the penalty charges era, but the biggest thing I think I grasped was that olde Alistair MacLean mantra "Fear is the Key." Once they realise they have lost that, then they know they have their work cut out for them. I'm not expecting these accounts to become UE via time-barring or CCA s.77-79 non-compliance, so paying £1 each p/m is worth more to me as a means of putting it on record that I am not trying to avoid the debts - and that I am genuinely now unable to repay them.

When the time comes for their day in court, they will have a defendant who has behaved decently toward them, within his capabilities. I will have my own record of their behaviour to present - and I'm in no hurry to see that day. I don't feel I'm prolonging the agony, as I'm not the one who is in any pain - and it is up to my pursuers to decide how long to waste their own time. Meanwhile, I am gathering my own evidence of their behaviour. That's my stance on this, MrsD - but this is not my forté, and I do listen to what you guys say. We are all learning from each other.

As regards priorities, I agree. I'm not here to satisfy the greed of others - I'm here to protect myself - and mine, and others - from that greed. So - yes - pleasing the DCA's is the equivalent of buying socks. No - make that pants !!!

[SA Gold]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

hi Bill,
just wanted to wish you all the best with this. As said, put yourself and the wife first. these parasites can wait.
Best
SA

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Cheers SA !!!

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Further to Oscar's advice - I have already had a handful of attempts by Moorcroft (aka "MDR") to get me on the phone, but in fairness, they haven't had time to digest my 'Prove It' email. I've blocked them - but it remains to be seen if they use the Vanquis strategy of using a gazillion different numbers. If that happens, then I reckon a CCA s.77-79 will be on its way. I'll let them 'settle in' first.

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Had an email today (yes - Saturday !) from MDR, wherein they have said that they will not contact me whilst they investigate my queries. This appears to be in response to my 'Prove It' email sent earlier, so that has bought some time. As MrsD has explained - if we can let them know they haven't got any 'easy prey' here - then they do indeed p!$$ off and annoy someone else eventually !!!

[Bill-K]

Re: Credit Cards when Disability Hits Us

Just an update - this week I received a letter from Vanquis confirming that MDR have been appointed to recover the debt. Today, I received a letter from MDR with a transaction log attached, and putting the account on hold for a further 14 days. I will of course use that time to try and grow a money tree in the garden, as that is the only chance we now have of clearing the debt - but I fully expect to be sending a CCA s.77-79 request on April Fools' day.