C.A.R.S Debt Collection

[Diasflac]

I will give you the full story firstly.

I had a dispute with 3 over an account, some rude CSA annoyed me so I told them where to shove their contract. I went away with work to Qatar for 6 months and came back to a lot of letters, I expected the account to default and I'd set up a reduced payment plan, purely to be an a**e about it. The last letter I had was from CARS saying they were going to take legal action in the amount of £195.00. This seemed very low as I was expecting it to be about £600-700. I called the company and asked them why it was so low.

The advisor was very unhelpful and said it was a part balance they were going to take legal action for. I kindly explained you cannot be taken to court for part balance of a credit account, how can a CCJ cover part of a balance? The advisor admitted she knew nothing about credit/consumer law or debt collection practices.

I took sympathy on her and asked straight forward questions to get some answers. I asked if they had bought the debt from 3, she said no. I then asked for a final balance for the full account, to which she responded with this was a final bill. Frustrated I asked what happened to the rest of the balance, she put me on hold to speak to her manager. When she came back she said her manager had told her 3 had written off the remaining £500. Too good to be true? I thought so, she then asked if I could pay this and became annoyed when I said I'd check with 3 first.

After speaking to 3 it seems 3 had decided to continue my contract despite lack of payment for 6 months, so I cancelled and was told as it's one months notice I will receive the final bill for £700 on June 10th. I called CARS the next day.

The next advisor really got my goat up, she was sighing and even claimed she earned more than me! Out of no where, so I asked her how much apparently, despite no consumer law knowledge she earns 35k a year, quickly shut up when I told her my pay (significantly more). Wouldn't normally bring that up but it was such a rude thing to do, obviously they're used to dealing with low income earners, maybe a ploy to force payment? I don't know.

I told her what 3 had said, she said if I made any payment to 3 I then had to call CARS and inform them, I told her it's her client I don't "have" to do jack. Then even more lies began, after lying about the rest being written off I was already at the end of my tether with this company. I said well if I make a small payment of £5 can you hold the debt and stop bothering me until 3 have sorted their billing out. Her exact words "I'm sorry we only accept a minimum of 10% of the balance" so I told her I wouldn't pay then. I informed her that a DCA could not reject any payment no matter how small, she seemed to disagree with me and wouldn't take a lower payment, infact her attitude was so bad I wouldn't have trust her to put the correct amount through on my card. The next day I received a letter saying "you have breached your agreed payment plan, you now much pay the balance of £195.00 or further action will be taken".

So I called them back and asked right away to speak to the manager and was told it was a 24 hour callback, she asked what it was regarding: I said "I have been lied to on several occasions by your company in an effort to retrieve monies from myself. Lying is a breach of Debt Collection Regulations, your staff have been rude, obnoxious and have failed to answer simple questions regarding the debt which, as a DCA you should know already. I am considering reporting your company to the OFT, your letters are untruthful, your staff are liars and misleading". She took the note and said bye, she was actually the nicest person I've spoken to. I would like to point out I have never been aggressive or patronising on the phone, I ask clear questions I expect simple answers to.

1 hour later my phone rings, but you know that ring where they dial and put the phone down right away so your phone lights up but doesn't ring? I had that, right next to me, on my desk. 1 missed call - That was my manager call back.

Should I report them to the OFT, I can handle a company like this because it's my job to know credit laws, what worries me is vulnerable people facing these falsities would be scared into paying this company. I seriously believe this company should have their licence revoked and fined.

Any other advice on dealing with them?

[helmsman]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

I will give you the full story firstly.

I had a dispute with 3 over an account, some rude CSA annoyed me so I told them where to shove their contract. I went away with work to Qatar for 6 months and came back to a lot of letters, I expected the account to default and I'd set up a reduced payment plan, purely to be an a**e about it. The last letter I had was from CARS saying they were going to take legal action in the amount of £195.00. This seemed very low as I was expecting it to be about £600-700. I called the company and asked them why it was so low.

The advisor was very unhelpful and said it was a part balance they were going to take legal action for. I kindly explained you cannot be taken to court for part balance of a credit account, how can a CCJ cover part of a balance? The advisor admitted she knew nothing about credit/consumer law or debt collection practices.

I took sympathy on her and asked straight forward questions to get some answers. I asked if they had bought the debt from 3, she said no. I then asked for a final balance for the full account, to which she responded with this was a final bill. Frustrated I asked what happened to the rest of the balance, she put me on hold to speak to her manager. When she came back she said her manager had told her 3 had written off the remaining £500. Too good to be true? I thought so, she then asked if I could pay this and became annoyed when I said I'd check with 3 first.

After speaking to 3 it seems 3 had decided to continue my contract despite lack of payment for 6 months, so I cancelled and was told as it's one months notice I will receive the final bill for £700 on June 10th. I called CARS the next day.

The next advisor really got my goat up, she was sighing and even claimed she earned more than me! Out of no where, so I asked her how much apparently, despite no consumer law knowledge she earns 35k a year, quickly shut up when I told her my pay (significantly more). Wouldn't normally bring that up but it was such a rude thing to do, obviously they're used to dealing with low income earners, maybe a ploy to force payment? I don't know.

I told her what 3 had said, she said if I made any payment to 3 I then had to call CARS and inform them, I told her it's her client I don't "have" to do jack. Then even more lies began, after lying about the rest being written off I was already at the end of my tether with this company. I said well if I make a small payment of £5 can you hold the debt and stop bothering me until 3 have sorted their billing out. Her exact words "I'm sorry we only accept a minimum of 10% of the balance" so I told her I wouldn't pay then. I informed her that a DCA could not reject any payment no matter how small, she seemed to disagree with me and wouldn't take a lower payment, infact her attitude was so bad I wouldn't have trust her to put the correct amount through on my card. The next day I received a letter saying "you have breached your agreed payment plan, you now much pay the balance of £195.00 or further action will be taken".

So I called them back and asked right away to speak to the manager and was told it was a 24 hour callback, she asked what it was regarding: I said "I have been lied to on several occasions by your company in an effort to retrieve monies from myself. Lying is a breach of Debt Collection Regulations, your staff have been rude, obnoxious and have failed to answer simple questions regarding the debt which, as a DCA you should know already. I am considering reporting your company to the OFT, your letters are untruthful, your staff are liars and misleading". She took the note and said bye, she was actually the nicest person I've spoken to. I would like to point out I have never been aggressive or patronising on the phone, I ask clear questions I expect simple answers to.

1 hour later my phone rings, but you know that ring where they dial and put the phone down right away so your phone lights up but doesn't ring? I had that, right next to me, on my desk. 1 missed call - That was my manager call back.

Should I report them to the OFT, I can handle a company like this because it's my job to know credit laws, what worries me is vulnerable people facing these falsities would be scared into paying this company. I seriously believe this company should have their licence revoked and fined.

Any other advice on dealing with them?

Hi and welcome others will be along soon with the knowledge, all I can add is everything in writing.ps CARS are useless you can see them off with 1 letter.

[Diasflac]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

I would like to expand on my you cannot be taken to court for a part balance, I'm an expert on these laws and that was a general statement. I'm not a financial adviser or lawyer but I'm a Procurement Specialist, credit and contract law is a major requirement for my job. I feel on a forum like this I should share this knowledge rather than just ask for some advice:

You can be taken to court for a part balance on a credit agreement. Generally, however, you can only have one CCJ against a credit agreement, there are exceptional circumstances which if you were in you'd know about it. This debt however doesn't come under that. If they took me to court for the part balance and a CCJ was issued for £195.00, they would then be unable to take me to court for the remaining £500 as you cannot be taken to court twice for the same debt, the first CCJ automatically blocks any recovery attempts for the remainder as you can argue they had the opportunity to recover all the costs. They have very little weight in this matter, DCA's have attempted this before but as far as I'm aware they are all rejected in court.

When I said you cannot be taken to court for a partial debt, I mean when they pass it to their solicitors, if they do their job correctly, they will tell CARS they shouldn't pursue this to court as it will effectively write off the remaining balance.

[Diasflac]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

Update - Got my managers call back, I've done a subject access request for all phone calls, will have all the proof of the lies on them.

Complaint to Ombudsman?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

I'm not so sure I agree with the "ccj for part balance" because you'd need to formally terminate the account prior to enforcement and termination means closure per se hence you would be claiming the full balance owed anyway.

Why attempt a part-balance CCJ when all they'd have to do is default you with the 14 day remedy period, terminate then issue a claim for the full balance.

[Diasflac]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

I'm not so sure I agree with the "ccj for part balance" because you'd need to formally terminate the account prior to enforcement and termination means closure per se hence you would be claiming the full balance owed anyway.

Why attempt a part-balance CCJ when all they'd have to do is default you with the 14 day remedy period, terminate then issue a claim for the full balance.

According to their operations manager, they only have the debt for the missed payments not the rest of the balance still held with 3, if they were to pursue to court they have no right to pursue the full balance, just what they have bought(why they have gone about it this was is as surprising to me). They "could" do this as I said, its the part of the balance owed but it would effectively write off the remainder.

It's been 6 months and hasn't defaulted yet, the lady at 3 seemed to think they would actually just carry on the contract for the other 14 months and keep passing bits to this agency. It makes no sense because could effectively have ignored them for another year.

Part debt claims are very complicated legally, I would have thought the agency go through a solicitor to pursue debt rather than do it themselves? If so a solicitor would write an empty threated letter but would know better than to pursue the part balance. They can be done, there is nothing stopping them. When they apply to court they say - Joe Bloggs owes us this amount against this account according to this agreement, if they don't declare the rest it's their folly, the court will issue a judgement on whatever amount they claim I owe if I accept it.

A CCJ can be issued without a default notice where debt is held by more than one creditor (which is why it shouldn't be, there's a reason it doesn't happen often ) - Actually not 100% confident in my paragraph here, ignore this could be incorrect advice.

My concern is with their treatment of customers/debtors. I strongly believe outright lying to someone to get payment is unethical and surely shouldn't be allowed?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

Nah sorry they are not making any sense at all. The way it would work is you owe say £195 which by all accounts gives them right to formally default you in line with s.87/s.88 CCA(1974). After giving you the remedy period of 14 days to comply, if you fail to do so they can then terminate the account which automatically gives them the right to demand full balance - so why would anyone try and enforce a part balance which stops them ever enforcing the rest (normally the greater value) when if they waited 14 days to default you, they could demand full balance.

You're being led up the garden path me thinks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

A CCJ can be issued without a default notice where debt is held by more than one creditor (which is why it shouldn't be, there's a reason it doesn't happen often ) - Actually not 100% confident in my paragraph here, ignore this could be incorrect advice.

Not true. To enforce a debt by way of judgment the debt must first be enforceable and to be enforceable it must be owed. To get it owed means they would need to default and terminate you at which point they'd claim the full balance - trust me, we see it daily here.

My concern is with their treatment of customers/debtors. I strongly believe outright lying to someone to get payment is unethical and surely shouldn't be allowed?

Breach of OFT guidelines on debt collection...

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

My concern is with their treatment of customers/debtors. I strongly believe outright lying to someone to get payment is unethical and surely shouldn't be allowed?

Your SAR will say something like - Phone call made to X. Requested payment of balance. X refused. The record will say what they want it to say.........

Many CRM systems contain 'customer facing notes' and 'internal notes' where reports which are run to respond to SAR requests will contain the customer facing notes only..........

They will not provide you with recordings of the phone calls - these will mysteriously not be available or you will be told they do not record all calls.

Hence why rule number 1 exists - ALL correspondence should be in writing only. You will find they will be more reluctant to put porkies to paper.

Personally I'd stop speaking to them on phone and start getting everything in writing. You're only encouraging them speaking on the phone!

Best
SnV

[Diasflac]

Re: C.A.R.S Debt Collection

Thanks Never-In-Doubt, I did mention I wasn't 100% sure on the default thing.

DCA bought £195 of the account from 3, 3 own £500. If DCA Default, unless the purchase the other £500 from 3 they cannot pursue the whole balance in court, surely.

I'm not really fussed about the debt though to be honest, it was just the service that irked me.

I've requested and paid for audio tapes, let the Ops manager know he was being recorded and he agreed I would get all phonecalls. If they mysteriously "disappear" the recorded phone call I just made should be sufficient?

You are right about the phone, I think further correspondence in writing is the way forwards, they are really infuriating to talk to, I've spoken to debt companies before and usually it's "You owe this, how would you like to pay or is there anything you need to know" and they give you all the information upfront. This one, sounds like it's been run by the Trotters!