How to communicate with DCA's etc

[jon1965]

Following a discussion on someones UE thread it was suggested that I start a thread here

So
How do we go about communicating with DCA's etc
From what I can see the options are
1) Special Delivery (£5.90)
2) Signed for (1.55) BUT you do not always get a signature and have to chase RM for a POD
3) Proof of posting (normal post price but you need to go to the P.O.)
4) Chuck in it in the post box
5) Email

Now IMHO all important letters should be sent at least by recorded e.g CCA requests, replies to LBA's etc

Other letters , well how should we do it?
If we use Special or Signed for it can become expensive especially if you are on benefits. Basic JSA is £71 per week so sending two or three letters is a big chunk out of that

Proof of posting, will a court accept that as proof?

Email
If you use an alternative email account that allows read receipts and the recipient allows read receipts that is all good, if not is the mere presence of an email in your outbox or backed up enough?

My personal preference is email along with a proof of posting although I have been known to email the reply and pop the letter in a letterbox.
The only exception would be for PDL's as in my PDL thread where I do not want them to know where I live now

Curious about your thoughts

One other thought, if Halifax tell me that say IQOR are dealing with the account who would I deal with. My understanding is SAR=Halifax everything else would be IQOR

Personally I email where possible and follow it up with a hard copy that has a proof of posting. It does save a bit of money.
You need to remember that for someone on basic JSA say, every penny does count.

I often use my gmail account although that does not allow read receipts but I can have 5 talktalk email addresses that are easy to cancel etc. With Windows live it is easy to get a read receipt when the recipient hasn't disabled them. Should you need to use a real email address it really is quite simple to set up an email filter so any emails from , say wescot, go into a folder of your choosing

[The Tech Clerk]

How to communicate with DCA's etc

A paper trail has more influence to a judge it has been reported and is a written paper trail. Also Recorded Delivery is the final stamp that they received with a signature.

[MrsD]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

papertrail papertrail papertrail

emails can be footered with and lost and deleted

if you have your half of the papertrail, it's solid evidence.

the whole point of UE is to try very hard to stay out of a court, while always preparing to be in a court. seemples

[jon1965]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Ok I take your point of view. Of course nothing is tamper proof .
I agree that IMHO some letters absolutely have to be sent signed for and some even special delivery.
My comment was aimed at sending more than one copy of the same letter to different people, or if you needed a very quick response. I.e if you got a LBA you could email a response and put a hard copy in the post

I have copies of copies of every letter/email/read receipt/signature that I have sent or received in this process

Out of interest, and not having received any for many a year, do court summons come signed for, I know for a fact DN's do not yet they are deemed to have been received

[MrsD]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

here in Scotland, they come signed for

[ScabHunter]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

do court summons come signed for

Not in lowly Sassenach land they don't. Which is why those with morals lower than a snake's belly often deliberately send them to the wrong address.

The court system in this country seems to be deliberately set up to benefit those who would abuse it the most. That is because it is deliberately set up to benefit those who would abuse it the most.

SH

[jon1965]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thanks SH
There is so much conflicting advice on methods of communication. The only one that just about everyone agree with is no telephone.

There are times where email IS the ONLY option (as in my PDL hassel)
The rest of the time it is open to debate which has been had before on here

[jon1965]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

The reason I suggested sending to wescot as well is that the letter from arrow says all correspondence to wescot.
I did not say do not send to arrow
Neither did I say do not send the letter to Arrow by signed for
However I did suggest that the COPY could be sent to Wescot via email and that if you use a mail client such as windows live and one of my 5 talktalk addresses you could ask for a read receipt.
Personally I have 2 talktalk addresses that never change and the others get used as and when I need a throw away one

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

I would never use emails for this kind of communication. It needs to be recorded delivery.

When dealing with DCA's snailmail is almost always your friend.

It slows things down and allows you more time (which DCA's hate), while at the same time you are still showing 'willing' by corresponding.

It also allows some time for reflection, decide should you send what you have written etc, rather than just hitting the 'send' button.

You do not necessarily need to send recorded delivery (though it helps), but you can also ask for proof of delivery which is much cheaper.

Once a DCA starts the merry-go-round of lies by claiming that they have not received correspondence you can then start throwing questions in relation to their integrity (i.e. if in the unlikely even things got to court, and you can demonstrate a history of a DCA claiming they have not received letters, when you have documented signatures from RM, then you can also start questioning other assertions they may make).

It costs DCA's more money to collect debts using snailmail than email. The less profit they are likely to make on an account, the less likely there are to pursue it! I wouldn't recommend doing anything that assists a DCA's bottom line!

Its more difficult for DCA's to collect using snailmail - another reason for them to drop the account. Email is almost as preferable for them as telephone so you are less likely to get rid of them engaging them in this way.

Remember the goal is to get them to understand that you are not easy pickings. You want them to move on to softer targets (until they find AAD!) and leave you alone. The harder it is for them to collect, the better.

[jon1965]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Thank you SnV
I do understand the principles of snail mail and I always send copies in the post.
Basically there are 4 methods by post
Special which costs from £5.90
Signed for which is £1.55 but you do not always get a signature(you should but...) and you have more hassle chasing POD's up from the post office
Proof of posting which is free but needs to go to the PO
Normal chuck it in the letterbox

So what is the consensus, Signed for if it's important and proof of posting if it's not?

Another point that does need to be remembered is that not everyone can make it to a post office in a timely fashion for whatever reasons .

I am fairly sure that I have never relied on email as the only form of communication except when I was having fun with Wanka sending multicoloured emails and of course with minicredit.

I would also re-iterate that for someone on benefits there is not a lot of money left so saving a couple of quid here and there can be helpful

All this started with a comment on sending to wets as per the letter from Arrow and my idea that you could save a little cash by copying wets in by email.

[ScabHunter]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

Well, for what it is worth I have never been a subscriber to the "snail mail is always best" theory. I agree it is right most of the time, but all of this spending fortunes on recorded delivery to respond to every pathetic template the machine spews out is grossly overdone.

As for the idea that snail mail and recorded delivery constitutes proof that you sent a certain letter, that is obviously false. I could send a piece of bog paper through the post recorded delivery, and then hold the receipt up in court and say "Look, this proves that I sent this letter on the date I said".

The idea that emails can be tampered with and letters can't is also preposterous. Anyone can scan a letter in to a PC, add some text or another paragraph, and then print it off again. Virtually all letters are printed, so anyone who has access to someone's signature can forge a letter by simply writing it in a word processor program, and then scanning and copying the signature. If you sent me a cheque, I could forge a letter from you threatening to blow up Buckingham Palace, take over Parliament by force, or an offer to marry Dot Cotton. Anyone could.

Email is actually far harder to tamper with, at least safely, because if someone takes a laptop into a court room, logs into their email account, and then shows either their inbox or sent folder, that is far better proof of what was really sent than any snail mail proof could ever be.

Of course, it is not what is proof that matters. It is what the courts perceive as proof which matters. I am not suggeting that the Account Sold in Dispute letter should not be sent to Arrow by Recorded Delivery. In this case, it should be. Pip is dealing with a highly litigious enemy and the courts accept RD as proof of sending.

I think you're making some important points, and no-one can speak of the case of the person on benefits dealing with multiple alleged creditors better than someone who is in that situation.

SH

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: How to communicate with DCA's etc

If you are sending any formal letter then the best advice will always be recorded delivery as this also provides proof you did indeed post it.

Email and/or other system generated mail is fine for basic "go to hell" replies etc but if you are arguing the finer points then it is always best to use snail mail. PDL's are an exception as they use email for everything, so obviously if you get a contact email address use it.

There is no hard-fast right or wrong, it is personal preference but if you respond to CCA related stuff then always send via Royal Mail.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

papertrail papertrail papertrail

emails can be footered with and lost and deleted

if you have your half of the papertrail, it's solid evidence.

the whole point of UE is to try very hard to stay out of a court, while always preparing to be in a court. seemples

totally agree

I proved this earlier in the year (testing this theory) by rejecting mail from the server, storing it, editing it and then delivering it with a totally different content proving email can be 'fixed'....

[oldyboy]

Re: Pip's UE Diary

When dealing with DCA's snailmail is almost always your friend.

It slows things down and allows you more time (which DCA's hate), while at the same time you are still showing 'willing' by corresponding.

It also allows some time for reflection, decide should you send what you have written etc, rather than just hitting the 'send' button.

You do not necessarily need to send recorded delivery (though it helps), but you can also ask for proof of delivery which is much cheaper.

Once a DCA starts the merry-go-round of lies by claiming that they have not received correspondence you can then start throwing questions in relation to their integrity (i.e. if in the unlikely even things got to court, and you can demonstrate a history of a DCA claiming they have not received letters, when you have documented signatures from RM, then you can also start questioning other assertions they may make).

It costs DCA's more money to collect debts using snailmail than email. The less profit they are likely to make on an account, the less likely there are to pursue it! I wouldn't recommend doing anything that assists a DCA's bottom line!

Its more difficult for DCA's to collect using snailmail - another reason for them to drop the account. Email is almost as preferable for them as telephone so you are less likely to get rid of them engaging them in this way.

Remember the goal is to get them to understand that you are not easy pickings. You want them to move on to softer targets (until they find AAD!) and leave you alone. The harder it is for them to collect, the better.

Have to agree with SnV over this one. Also, depending on what level of threat I'm dealing with, I don't reply straight away. Let them hang for a while if you can.

[jon1965]

Re: How to communicate with DCA's etc

Thanks everyone, some good solid advice.

Can I just make two observations
Email does not have to be an instant reply, it can be a considered timely reply
What people call recorded is the same as signed for and standard cost is £1.55. Not a fortune I grant you but can soon add up.

But I am with Niddy 100% and don't think I said otherwise, for important stuff, signed for is the preferred minimum option for me