I&E requested

[GlobalC]

Hi guys, The Post office have requested that i send an I&E sheet in order to review my offer of £xx amount per month, is this something that i have to do or can i reject it? Reason i ask as its very difficult for me to do as im self employed and work is irregular. Thanks

[BBoo]

Re: I&E requested

You have no legal obligation whatsoever to supply what they are asking for. Equally, they have no legal obligation whatsoever to accept your offer.

The OFT Debt Guidelines talk about creditors accepting sensible offers backed by a Common Financial Statement or similar.

People on here will disagree with me here, and that is their right. However, I have extensive experience in this area and if you want an offer accepted, it is much more likely that will be the case if you voluntarily offer an I&E.

At the end of the day you can't have plucked your offer out of the air, you must have based it on something. What I think the PO are asking for here is the information on which you based your offer to them.

They need to satisfy themselves both that you can afford it and sustain it in the long term, also that you haven't got a substantial amount stashed away which you could use to pay it off faster or in full (I know - chance would be a fine thing! )

For self employed people, what they normally use is an average of their earnings over a period of time.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: I&E requested

People on here will disagree with me here, and that is their right. However, I have extensive experience in this area and if you want an offer accepted, it is much more likely that will be the case if you voluntarily offer an I&E.

I think you're referring to the attitude of 'never give any personal information to a creditor or a DCA' here BBoo.

While I understand the sentiment I also share your opinion that if you want a creditor to accept a reduced payment, then I see nothing wrong with providing them with a Common Financial Statement.

In fact the revised OFT guidelines make it tougher for creditors to refuse a 'reasonable offer of payment' once a CFS has been supplied, and also have to provide a reasonable objection as to why an offer is rejected.

I do though draw the line at providing bank statements, payslips, mortgage statements etc.

I would also ensure that a CFS issued by a debt charity (or similar) is sent and NOT one provided by a creditor.

Best
SnV

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: I&E requested

Hi guys, The Post office have requested that i send an I&E sheet in order to review my offer of £xx amount per month, is this something that i have to do or can i reject it? Reason i ask as its very difficult for me to do as im self employed and work is irregular. Thanks

You can tell em to get lost, no you do not need to supply this and to be honest I wouldn't either......

[GlobalC]

Re: I&E requested

Thanks everyone, i have decided to post another letter for the time being basically saying im not prepared to tell some random person on the phone my personal details and that i wont be putting them in the post either. Basically said that my offer of payment is the all i can afford at present so take it or leave it! See what they send back

I realise my offer is more likely to be accepted with an I&E but its almost impossible for me to do when one month i earn zilch and the next i could earn a half decent amount

[BBoo]

Re: I&E requested

I think you're referring to the attitude of 'never give any personal information to a creditor or a DCA' here BBoo.
No, some think it shouldn't be provided with an offer to a creditor.

While I understand the sentiment I also share your opinion that if you want a creditor to accept a reduced payment, then I see nothing wrong with providing them with a Common Financial Statement.

In fact the revised OFT guidelines make it tougher for creditors to refuse a 'reasonable offer of payment' once a CFS has been supplied, and also have to provide a reasonable objection as to why an offer is rejected.

I would also ensure that a CFS issued by a debt charity (or similar) is sent and NOT one provided by a creditor.
A creditor can't send a CFS, they may send an I&E form. There is a difference in terms of how they're viewed as the CFS has to be signed off by a licensed debt adviser. Totally agree with your sentiment though.

Best
SnV

You can tell em to get lost, no you do not need to supply this and to be honest I wouldn't either......

I do not think I could disagree with you more. If you want something from the creditor, like a payment arrangement, it is only fair the creditor should be able to see how that offer is arrived at. Someone may make an offer while having savings elsewhere, or which treats one creditor more favourably than another. Situations like this are clearly unfair and should not be condoned.

I realise my offer is more likely to be accepted with an I&E but its almost impossible for me to do when one month i earn zilch and the next i could earn a half decent amount

I understand this, but presumably your offer must have been based on something concrete? One would hope you didn't just pluck a figure out of the air.

[GlobalC]

Re: I&E requested

I understand this, but presumably your offer must have been based on something concrete? One would hope you didn't just pluck a figure out of the air.

This figure is one which i would feel comfortable to pay, should i have a bad month then it makes things difficult but thats the case with all the debts i have to pay. I dont just want to offer a token payment here as it is enforceable so i would like to start to pay this off.

My next battle is going to be with two loans with sainsburys....boy this is never ending

[BBoo]

Re: I&E requested

You'll get there - there's all the support in the world on here! I do know what you mean though, sometimes it feels like there's no light at the end of the tunnel, then suddenly something will happen and the ball starts rolling again.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: I&E requested

A creditor can't send a CFS, they may send an I&E form. There is a difference in terms of how they're viewed as the CFS has to be signed off by a licensed debt adviser. Totally agree with your sentiment though.

Yes thats what I said - a CFS provided by a debt charity (or similar).

I have, unfortunately, seen many such requests by creditors and DCA's titled as Common Financial Statements, hence my comment.

An individual can also use the CFS format (and trigger figures, although these are meant to be closely guarded, they are available on t'internet, and here!), and the Lending Code and OFT guidance is very clear that a creditor should treat individually derived figures and proposals exactly the same as those provided by a debt advisor. (Though we all know how much attention creditors and DCA's pay to both the lending code and OFT).

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: I&E requested

You can tell em to get lost, no you do not need to supply this and to be honest I wouldn't either......

I am going to disagree with you here too Niddy sorry

I agree that there is no legal obligation to provide information relating to income/expenditure/CFS etc, however.........

Both the Lending Code and the OFT, stipulate that once this information has been provided there should be no good reason for a creditor to refuse a debtors offer at this point.

Should a creditor refuse an offer, it gives the debtor huge leverage over them, and also in the rare event if things got to court you could demonstrate a creditors unreasonable behaviour.

But I would not provide payslips, bank statements, etc.

Best
SnV

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: I&E requested

To be frank guys, disagree all you want - I am the one that built this forum based upon my knowledge of this field and so if I was so wrong, we'd be non existent.

So disagree all you want, my words remain intact for all to see - never ever send an I&E to a creditor. You do not need to.

The only exception is if it is in YOUR benefit, such as a recent case that myself and a DMP provider were helping someone with. In that situation then yea, I will also suggest an I&E but as I say, you do not need to do it and nor should you do it willy-nilly without damn good reason.

That's my views.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: I&E requested

To be frank guys, disagree all you want - I am the one that built this forum based upon my knowledge of this field and so if I was so wrong, we'd be non existent.

So disagree all you want, my words remain intact for all to see - never ever send an I&E to a creditor. You do not need to.

The only exception is if it is in YOUR benefit, such as a recent case that myself and a DMP provider were helping someone with. In that situation then yea, I will also suggest an I&E but as I say, you do not need to do it and nor should you do it willy-nilly without damn good reason.

That's my views.

We all have different views, if we didn't the world would be a very boring place!

I would consider that in many circumstances it is in the debtors benefit to send an I/E as it gives the creditor more rope to hang themselves should the behave unreasonably, and I also consider it gives more leverage to complain to the OFT and FOS should creditors do so.

I also consider a self managed DMP more flexible, as most debt advisors shy away from using the UE route, which is very useful if a creditor is being unreasonable as it again gives a consumer more leverage.

I just consider to loading the device in your favour

Best
SnV

[swanfan]

Re: I&E requested

I would consider that in many circumstances it is in the debtors benefit to send an I/E as it gives the creditor more rope to hang themselves should the behave unreasonably, and I also consider it gives more leverage to complain to the OFT and FOS should creditors do so.

If you are offering a repayment and they are refusing it, that goes against oft guidelines anyway doesn't it? Regardless of whether you send an I&E with it. Sorry agree with Niddy here, totally unnecessary to send one in most circumstances.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: I&E requested

If you are offering a repayment and they are refusing it, that goes against oft guidelines anyway doesn't it? Regardless of whether you send an I&E with it. Sorry agree with Niddy here, totally unnecessary to send one in most circumstances.

A creditor could refuse an offer of payment if it was not considered to be reasonable. By not providing I/E or CFS, it makes it easier for them to reject an offer, but once you do they get in a very sticky situation.

These are the following sections they would be in breach of:

Section A6 OFT 664:

We would have particular concerns under circumstances in which a debt recovery business rejects a debtor's repayment offer as being unacceptable – but cannot subsequently demonstrate to our satisfaction why the offer was considered to be unreasonable (for example, if assessed against the Common Financial Statement or equivalent).



Lending Code:

1. SubscribersshouldaccepttheCFS(andothersimilarstate mentssuchasthatusedbytheConsumerCredit Counselling Service (CCCS)). The CFS - or equivalent details of the customer’s income, expenditure and assets - is necessary to enable the subscriber to gather information to assess if an ‘offer to pay’ will enable the customer to be accepted onto a formal debt management plan (DMP), or enable the subscriber to reduce or suppress interest and fees.
2. Ifacustomerworkswithadebt-counsellingorganisationtocompleteaCFS,insupportofa debtmanagementplan, the subscriber should accept the CFS as the basis for pro-rata distribution amongst creditors covered by the plan. Repayment offers based upon expenditure falling within the trigger figures of the CFS should only be challenged by the subscriber if it has reasonable cause to believe that the customer’s income and expenditure figures may be incomplete or inaccurate. This provision is designed to help people in or at risk of being in financial difficulties, and subscribers should use the provision when accounts have gone into default or at an earlier stage if it benefits both them and the customer.

[mgfboy]

Re: I&E requested

I'm torn on this one, if I arrange a mortgage for a client they have to do a I&E so the lender can calculate/confirm what they are willing to lend.

SO it could be argued that why shouldn't a lender ask for the same when looking at a payment schedule, the problem comes in the fact that by this time there is a problem often no trust exists between the parties and both have different views on what is reasonable on the figure.

Am I correct if it goes before a Judge he would expect and I&E to see if the request and offer are in right ball park??? If this is the case surely a correctly drawn up I&E can strengthen a case, an it would only be a problem if the person lies?