Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

[Amure1]

Hi All

I just found this forum and joined up to see if I can get some help

I have been having some problems with an old Halifax account that I use to have back in 2009 let me give you some of the background information...

Halifax Personal Current Account.
Opened A/C in 2001 closed April 09 (also date of the Default).
Default Amount: £650 of which £93 was my debt, £200 overdraft and the rest bank charges.
Total letter Sent: 4
First sent: 11th Sept 2012 - Last: 29th Nov 2012 (all letter sent Recorded and with all previous correspondence)

I did not know about this site till yesterday so got my template from here and altered it to fit my situation.
How to attempt to remove a Default Notice | LearnMoney.co.uk

OK so back in 2009 finding work was a bit hard as a contractor and money was running low when I started getting toward the end of my overdraft I stopped my DD on the account to stop it from going over. Unfortunately they were re-added to my account and they charged my account as soon as that happened Halifax started hitting my account with £25 and £35 daily/weekly charges multiple times until it hit the above amount. By the time I realized what had happened it was to late, I phoned on several occasions to try and sort this out by getting the charges reduced at the time and on the last conversation someone said they will sort it out and get back to be but did not, I unfortunately focused on other things and did not follow up and they closed the account which I thought was the end of it as the debt payment letters stopped as well.

2011 I started looking into buying a place and started checking to get things in order. At that point my Credit File was clean and showed all the financial agreement that I had taken out and completed, the Halifax default was not on there. July 2012 I finished saving my deposit and started going through the motions to getting approved and got another copy of my credit file, that is when I first saw the Halifax default and started looking into what I could do to sort this out.

I am sure I did not get the Default Notice in the post but Halifax was unhelpful when trying to rectify the problem. I sent the below letter (in next post) then 3 similar letter and the only correspondence I got back was my statement of account and who owns the debt now after the 2nd letter. I preceded to pay this off promptly. Jan 2013 came with no further reply form Halifax even though the Post Office says all my letters had been received and by whom.

I decided to speak to and forward copies of all correspondence to the Banking Ombudsman who have currently written to Bank of Scotland to send me my final letter and is now in the process of assigning someone to deal with my case.

Now what has got me worried/puzzled is that Halifax ""has received the letter from Banking-O"" (must be magic paper I need some of that!) and decided to give me a call yesterday. They first told me they had not received any of my letter and preceded to calculate a discount for the amount owed by cutting some of the charges (which I tried to get sorted years ago), until I told them that it was paid off almost 3 month ago from which they said they cant do anything now as it has already been paid. I told them that what I want is the default removed or proof that the default notice was sent and any/all proof that it was sent. They first stated that they have the template of the notice they sent out and a note on their system saying it was sent. They then stated that they did not need to hold the original notice (with my details) just the template or proof that it was delivered/sent apart from the note on the system.....
they main thing that really throws me of was towards the end of the conversation he was trying his hardest to get me to answer a question.. "At the time the default was issued was I in a position to pay it?" I had no idea why he was asking this question as it would have made no difference to the matter at hand, so I told them if they were not prepared to remove the default then they should deal with the Banking Ombudsman and I am not prepared to continue the conversation on the phone they should write to me.


Does anyone know why they asked me this? Or if they are right in saying that they do not need to hold a true copy of the Default Notice or any real proof in sending it?

Thanks for your help.

Marcus

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

The first letter sent is below:

My Address

Halifax
P O Box 548
Leeds
LS1 1WU
Date: 10th September 2012
Dear Sir or Madam
RE: Account number: 00xxxxxx / Sort Code: xx-xx-xx
After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a Default Notice against an account in my name.
Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.
1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement your company refers to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose 2 £5 postal orders in payment of the statutory fee, the reason for 2 is because information given to me by you staff was contradictory making it hard to determine if it was £5 or £10 to pay. If it was the aforementioned amount please just send the second PO back with accounts.
The PO Serial Numbers are below
Postal order Serial Number 1: _99999999___
Postal order Serial Number 2: _99999999___
2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice.
3. Copy of Postal Confirmation that this was delivered (i.e. Recorded Delivery Confirmation)
4. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on.
I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must firmly insist that the Default is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.
Yours faithfully
Mr X

[SA Gold]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

hi, welcome aboard. Good luck with the default removal. please let us know when you hear back from them.

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

hi, welcome aboard. Good luck with the default removal. please let us know when you hear back from them.

Thanks will do

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Hi All


Halifax Personal Current Account.
Opened A/C in 2001 closed April 09 (also date of the Default).
Default Amount: £650 of which £93 was my debt, £200 overdraft and the rest bank charges.
Total letter Sent: 4
First sent: 11th Sept 2012 - Last: 29th Nov 2012 (all letter sent Recorded and with all previous correspondence)



Now what has got me worried/puzzled is that Halifax ""has received the letter from Financial Ombusman"" (must be magic paper I need some of that!) and decided to give me a call yesterday. They first told me they had not received any of my letter and preceded to calculate a discount for the amount owed by cutting some of the charges (which I tried to get sorted years ago), until I told them that it was paid off almost 3 month ago from which they said they cant do anything now as it has already been paid. I told them that what I want is the default removed or proof that the default notice was sent and any/all proof that it was sent. They first stated that they have the template of the notice they sent out and a note on their system saying it was sent. They then stated that they did not need to hold the original notice (with my details) just the template or proof that it was delivered/sent apart from the note on the system.....
The main thing that really throws me of was towards the end of the conversation he was trying his hardest to get me to answer a question.. "At the time the default was issued was I in a position to pay it?" I had no idea why he was asking this question as it would have made no difference to the matter at hand, so I told them if they were not prepared to remove the default then they should deal with the Banking Ombudsman and I am not prepared to continue the conversation on the phone they should write to me.


Does anyone know why they asked me this? Or if they are right in saying that they do not need to hold a true copy of the Default Notice or any real proof in sending it?

Thanks for your help.

Marcus

Hi has anyone got any input in regards to this please just want to know if I need to be doing anything else and what my options are if they do write to me asking this question?


Thanks again

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Hiya

Ok, seems you're getting confused with two sets of legislation;

1. s.87 / s.88 CCA1974 dictates that a lender should issue a default notice before they recall the full balance and terminate the account. This is a statutory requirement and a DN must be issued prior to the bank demanding full repayment of the balance.

The above does not affect you, in the respect you seek clarity so ignore the statutory requirement for now - read more about it here --> Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.87 CCA & Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.88 CCA

2. ICO Technical Guidelines

This is a technical guidance, is not statute and literally means the banks need to observe the guidance and try best to adhere to it - they cannot be fined/punished/told off for non compliance as it is simply guidance. It is this that directly affects you.

Read more about ICO technical Guidelines here --> ICO Technical Guidance of Default Issuance

Ok, so how does this affect you then? Put simply, the bank is allowed to add a default at any point after you stop paying but the guidance says it should be relative which means that if you stop paying in january, by July the bank 'should' have registered a default with the CRA's - but see if they don't, it doesn't matter! Plus with overdrafts the bank will say that you didn't necessarily default per se hence they defaulted you after they realised there was no chance to recoup the funds.

Banks lie and cheat to leave these defaults registered - it's their way of fighting back, by playing nasty bastards.

So in your case, and from what you say you do have an argument as you clearly paid the debt prior to the default being added to your credit file, according to your OP above. That said, before we can really go anywhere can you please confirm the exact date you cleared the debt and then also confirm the exact date that the default shows on your credit file? If we can show that the default was added AFTER you settled then they're screwed and the FOS should tell them to remove the entry and/or backdate it.

It all depends on that - the problem though, you have jumped in with a complaint to the FOS too early - the FOS may find against you and you're then buggered for 6 years so forget your mortgage - time will tell if this is the case.

Ordinarily the FOS will not get involved in default disputes and rarely tell a bank to remove an entry, they may instead say "backdate it to the time of actual default" which will not help you one iota sadly.

So, please confirm the date you paid the debt in full and also the date the default reads on your credit file and then PM me and i'll come back and explain more...

Pointless guessing outcomes, but lets just hope you've not messed up by going to FOS too early

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Hiya

Ok, seems you're getting confused with two sets of legislation;

1. s.87 / s.88 CCA1974 dictates that a lender should issue a default notice before they recall the full balance and terminate the account. This is a statutory requirement and a DN must be issued prior to the bank demanding full repayment of the balance.

The above does not affect you, in the respect you seek clarity so ignore the statutory requirement for now - read more about it here --> Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.87 CCA & Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.88 CCA

2. ICO Technical Guidelines

This is a technical guidance, is not statute and literally means the banks need to observe the guidance and try best to adhere to it - they cannot be fined/punished/told off for non compliance as it is simply guidance. It is this that directly affects you.

Read more about ICO technical Guidelines here --> ICO Technical Guidance of Default Issuance

Ok, so how does this affect you then? Put simply, the bank is allowed to add a default at any point after you stop paying but the guidance says it should be relative which means that if you stop paying in january, by July the bank 'should' have registered a default with the CRA's - but see if they don't, it doesn't matter! Plus with overdrafts the bank will say that you didn't necessarily default per se hence they defaulted you after they realised there was no chance to recoup the funds.

Banks lie and cheat to leave these defaults registered - it's their way of fighting back, by playing nasty bastards.

So in your case, and from what you say you do have an argument as you clearly paid the debt prior to the default being added to your credit file, according to your OP above. That said, before we can really go anywhere can you please confirm the exact date you cleared the debt and then also confirm the exact date that the default shows on your credit file? If we can show that the default was added AFTER you settled then they're screwed and the FOS should tell them to remove the entry and/or backdate it.

It all depends on that - the problem though, you have jumped in with a complaint to the FOS too early - the FOS may find against you and you're then buggered for 6 years so forget your mortgage - time will tell if this is the case.

Ordinarily the FOS will not get involved in default disputes and rarely tell a bank to remove an entry, they may instead say "backdate it to the time of actual default" which will not help you one iota sadly.

So, please confirm the date you paid the debt in full and also the date the default reads on your credit file and then PM me and i'll come back and explain more...

Pointless guessing outcomes, but lets just hope you've not messed up by going to FOS too early

Thank you for having a look and offering feedback and sorry I get confused with all the legislation and legal talk.. I was not sure what to use just copied and altered the one on the website as they looked like they knew what they were talking about..

I did not actually pay the amount till Last December 2012 and found out about the default earlier in the same year.

The FOS is still in the initial stages they said that my case will not get to an adjudicator for another 11 Weeks as they are swamped with cases at the moment.

I think what I was going for was the fact that I am almost certain (98%) that I got no letters or warnings about the default before I found it on my credit file and even though it was not there a couple of years back it appeared on the file about 3 years after the default date in 2009?!? But to be honest I will try anyway to get this off my account and get back to my plans as waiting 2 more years will just waste valuable time which I will rather not do. Apart from this my credit file is fine..

Thanks

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Pointless guessing outcomes, but lets just hope you've not messed up by going to FOS too early

Sorry I also came across an old post you may have written

Legal obligation to provide copy of a default notice? - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

Do you think this could be a path I should be looking at?

Thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Sorry I also came across an old post you may have written

Legal obligation to provide copy of a default notice? - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

Do you think this could be a path I should be looking at?

Thanks

Nope - as above in my original post..... that was then, this is 3 years later

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Thank you for having a look and offering feedback and sorry I get confused with all the legislation and legal talk.. I was not sure what to use just copied and altered the one on the website as they looked like they knew what they were talking about..

Its fine, lots to learn and the fact the banks ignore most legislative statute doesn't help much either

I did not actually pay the amount till Last December 2012 and found out about the default earlier in the same year.

Ahh so you paid AFTER you spotted the DN on your credit file - if so then you cannot argue, you can plead to their kind side (lol, like they have one) but you have no statutory right to have the Default marker removed sadly.

The FOS is still in the initial stages they said that my case will not get to an adjudicator for another 11 Weeks as they are swamped with cases at the moment.

Yep, but sadly you won't get far - they ought to (to follow process) write back and say the bank are entitled to default you within a reasonable time period.

I think what I was going for was the fact that I am almost certain (98%) that I got no letters or warnings about the default before I found it on my credit file and even though it was not there a couple of years back it appeared on the file about 3 years after the default date in 2009?!? But to be honest I will try anyway to get this off my account and get back to my plans as waiting 2 more years will just waste valuable time which I will rather not do. Apart from this my credit file is fine..

The letters etc for the default doesn't affect the entry on your credit file, so nothing doing arguing that unless they were suing you and you wanted to argue defective service of s.87/88.

regards the date of appearance, that too is sadly acceptable as they will say it is a current account with overdraft...

Thanks [/QUOTE]

[Amure1]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Its fine, lots to learn and the fact the banks ignore most legislative statute doesn't help much either

Ahh so you paid AFTER you spotted the DN on your credit file - if so then you cannot argue, you can plead to their kind side (lol, like they have one) but you have no statutory right to have the Default marker removed sadly.

Yep, but sadly you won't get far - they ought to (to follow process) write back and say the bank are entitled to default you within a reasonable time period.

The letters etc for the default doesn't affect the entry on your credit file, so nothing doing arguing that unless they were suing you and you wanted to argue defective service of s.87/88.

regards the date of appearance, that too is sadly acceptable as they will say it is a current account with overdraft...

Thanks

[/QUOTE]


So I guess there is nothing I can do then

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default Removal - Almost there! I think....

Any update here? Did you try arguing....