Announcement

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 09:10

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

The statutory fee is just that, a fee not a payment.

You should demand that the fee be properly acknowledged as a statutory fee under data protection on your statement.

Otherwise if limitation becomes an issue, and you say its statute barred, they can produce a statement to show you paid a tenner!!

**Undercover Elsa** · 9 October 2011, 09:14

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Hi Batman,
Others may disagree, but if all's quiet with the account, if it was me I would let sleeping dogs lie and only address the issue if it becomes necessary. You run the risk of your protestations being construed as acknowledgement unless you are very careful.
How was the payment made and to whom was it payable?
If it was payable to the company and not to yourself then it is the company who has made the payment into the account not you (and against your express instructions) hence shouldn't affect the time bar status. Only direct payments by yourself into the account, or signed acknowledgement can do that.
Requests for information are not acknowledgement.

Shepherdess x

**Undercover Elsa** · 9 October 2011, 09:34

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

I told you others may disagree..

Taking on board what Paul says, if you do write to them Batman just be really careful, and run it by the forum before you send it..

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 09:45

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

I have a case where the DCA has used the £1.00 fee to show that there was a payment made.

The Client does not have the letter requesting the papers and the DCA says its a one pound payment as agreed with the debtor

Its thus in the hands of the judge which is not a place i like to leave things, so get it recorded asap that its a statutory fee and with no admission of liability at this stage.

**Undercover Elsa** · 9 October 2011, 09:48

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Just shows the depths the b*ggers will sink to

**Batman** · 9 October 2011, 10:04

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Jeeezz, thanks so much guys...

This was my DSAR letter (edited)

Freds sharks ltd

For the attention of:
The Data Controller xx January 2011

Recorded Delivery

Dear Sir or Madam

Data Subject Access Request
Data Protection Act 1998

Shark Ref: xxxxxxxxxx
HFC Bank Ltd: xxxxxx
Name: Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I am enclosing the Statutory Fee of £10.00 in relation to the above. Please note that this Statutory Payment is not a payment toward any alleged debt and must not be added to any account. Should this sum appear marked against any account, the deposit will represent an unsolicited Gift from your Company to the alleged account in question.

I require every item of information that either states my name, or that can be linked to me in other ways, such as: by Account Number, Address, Postcode or any Telephone number, email address or other Reference that is, or has been, associated with me.

I require an exhaustive search and will need to see all records you hold on me, including but not limited to:

1. Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist between me and your organisation, including all copies of any documents you hold in support of same. For example; original signed credit agreement, terms and conditions at both inception and time of default.

2. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest repayments and payments and both the original amount of credit and any repayments made to the account.

3. True copies of any Default Notice or Enforcement Notice that you sent me with a copy of proof of any postage that you hold.

4. True copies of any Termination Notices sent to me, together with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. True copies of any Notices of Assignment, together with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

6. Where contact has been attempted via Telephone, I require the name of the Manager who authorised each and every such Telephone Call.

7. A detailed log of all telephone calls attempted, to include the time and date, details of the number you called, details of the number you were calling from and the reason for each call.

8. Where there has been any event in the alleged Account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, such as to impose Penalty Fines, or Increase Credit Limits or make adjustments to the Interest Rate, then I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

9. Details of any penalty or other collection charges added to the Account; specifically the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated and what the charge covers.

10. Specific details of the fees or charges levied by any other Agency in respect of any Account and a detailed breakdown of said fees or charges, what each charge relates to and on what date said fees or charges were levied.

11. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

12. A list of Third Party Agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal Data and detailed summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

13. Policy notes in relation to Payment Demands whilst the Account was in Dispute and at any other time when additional Payment Demands were authorised.

14. Document Management Record and Policy Notes in relation to any Documents handled, copied or destroyed during the lifetime of the alleged Account.

15. Details of the identity of any individuals or organisations who have provided you with my personal information together with copies of any letters of instruction provided by them, or any contracts entered into between yourselves and the third party and the relevant dates to which those contracts related.

16. Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertains to this information.

17. Full details and copies of any documents upon which you relied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.

18. Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to me or relation to my financial or personal information.

19. Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

20. Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.

21. Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

22. Full hard copy printouts of any of my personal financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices/locations.

23. Your Postal Licence numbers held with any organisation, not limited to Royal Mail, TNT, UK Mail, so that any proofs of postage can be verified and so that any and all correspondence received by me can be verified as being sent by your Company.

24. Your registration number with the Information Commissioners Office.

25. Your Consumer Credit Licence number.

Where reference to emails is given above, these emails should be taken from your email servers or backups/archives held in a magnetic or digital format. These emails may not be present on a user’s local system and may require the assistance of your IT department/IT providers, who you should contact immediately for their provision.

Please confirm whether you hold a Physical File with details of my personal and/or financial information. If so, please provide details and dates of any instances when this file has left your control, to whom it has been communicated, the method of transportation or communication e.g. Royal Mail, Tracked Courier, by hand or if Copies were sent electronically. Please provide a full copy of this file. Where my Physical File has left your offices, please provide details of any precautions taken to ensure that my information has not been lost, stolen, misplaced or made available to anybody who does not have authorised access. Please also confirm whether any of the documents held within the Physical File are computer generated.

Under Section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970, if you believe you have provided my information to any organisation, agent or individual who could, or may have used it for unlawful purposes, you should contact me immediately and provide full details of their identification and address, together with full details of any instructions you have provided to them. If you have forwarded or communicated my personal or financial information to any person, company, or organisation, please provide a copy of the authority, signed and dated by myself upon which you have relied prior to doing so. As requested above, you should provide copies on any such communications.

Under the Data Protection Act 1984/1998, as a Data Controller, you are responsible for the complete retraction of all information provided to any third party, should I request you to do so and you have a duty to myself to ensure that any personal or financial information I have provided to you is kept securely and is only communicated to those to whom I have given my express permission or authority.

If you are unable to deal with this request, you should immediately forward it to the person within your organisation responsible for Data Protection.
You have 40 calendar days in which to comply with this request.

If there is any specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

Yours faithfully

xxxx

Enclosed: 1 x Postal order in the sum of £10.00
(Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxx)

Notes: This letter is being mailed via Royal Mail Tracked service

**Batman** · 9 October 2011, 10:11

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Originally posted by Shepherdess View Post

I told you others may disagree..

Taking on board what Paul says, if you do write to them Batman just be really careful, and run it by the forum before you send it..

OK - this is what I was going to send the shark.....I do feel this matter needs highlighting now so they cannot throw it at me in future..

Freds sharks ltd

I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY OR HFC BANK

COMPLAINT ABOUT WRONGFUL USE OF DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST (DSAR) FEE BY XXXXXXX

Dear Sir

I am in receipt of your ANNUAL STATEMENT dated xx/10/2011.
Although (XX DCA XX) have failed to address my previous complaint of XX August 2011 (which was directed to your ‘solicitor’), I note that you have once again breached correct protocol.

The statement you have sent to me unmistakably indicates that you have erroneously taken my DSAR £10.00 fee and used it to revivify the disputed account.

The DSAR fee was (as I clearly stated in my DSAR to you of XX January 2011) specifically to be used ONLY for my DSAR and NO other purpose and NOT paid into the disputed account.

I believe that the ICO, FOS and OFT etc would be fascinated to hear (XX DCA XX) explanation of your exploitation concerning my DSAR fee in this situation.

Your statement then indicates that you have paid this DSAR fee to ‘HFC’ and thereby lowered the alleged balance of this long-disputed account in the process.

Could it be that this disputed account was never properly assigned to (XX DCA XX) in the first place, as has been my belief all along?

I have previously asked WHY I have received statements off HFC as you will be aware, when you have claimed to own this file. It now seems evident to me that I have been severely misled by both HFC and (XX DCA XX) here.

I also believe this wrongful £10.00 account deduction to be a clandestine attempt by your company to ‘resurrect’ an account, which has not received a single penny from me when we recall that ALL payments to 1st Credit were halted on XXX XXXX 2009?

I suggest that you immediately rectify this entire situation and return the whole file to HFC before it escalates even further into disarray.

As you are fully aware, I shall NOT be paying you or your client HFC any undue money and continue to welcome your previous threats of legal action.

HFC in fact owe me outstanding monies for PPI misselling etc as you know from this unfair relationship.

Your full explanation is requested at your earliest convenience, before I am forced to take this tedious matter any further.

Sincerely

Mr XXXXXX

CC to all regulatory authorities.

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 10:17

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

remove the i do not acknowledge any debt part, its not a good thing to place on a letter, it makes you look like a debt avoider !!!

Also its excessively long, hostile, and frankly i would not send a letter like that at all.

gimme a couple of hours ill see what i can formulate.

You must remember that any letter you send can and will without question be an exhibit in court if the matter escalates to legal action

**Batman** · 9 October 2011, 10:22

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Originally posted by Paul. View Post

remove the i part, its not a good thing to place on a letter, it makes you look like a debt avoider !!!

Also its excessively long, hostile, and frankly i would not send a letter like that at all.

gimme a couple of hours ill see what i can formulate.

You must remember that any letter you send can and will without question be an exhibit in court if the matter escalates to legal action

Paul thank you for this...

I shall be interested to see what your cut on this one is.

PS The reason for the bit - "I do not acknowledge any debt" was something that I have used for years at the advice of many others who belived it to be essential so the the DCA cannot later on say I have acknowledged any debt... a cover so to speak.

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 10:26

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

ok, so , in cross examination i say to you,

so you say you do not acknowledge any debt, why? did you not borrow the money? is this a case of mistaken identity? misrepresentation? fraud?

Your reply will be ...............?

**Batman** · 9 October 2011, 10:36

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Originally posted by Paul. View Post

ok, so , in cross examination i say to you,

so you say you do not acknowledge any debt, why? did you not borrow the money? is this a case of mistaken identity? misrepresentation? fraud?

Your reply will be ...............?

I would say mainly because I believe the assignment to be incorrect, the balance assigned held more charges and PPI than the alleged balance. Plus I have only last year received a statemant off the OC when the alleged debt is supposed to be wholly assigned to the shark. Plus there not being any proper agreement - only an illegible application form. And the OC has admitted, via DSAR data, that a lawful agreement is 'not' available when I asked for one. This contrasts sharply with the DCAs push to always advise that the application form IS a proper agreement. That is why I do not acknowledge any debt ..

Hey Paul - I am all ears and bend to your greater experience here.

I just wish to sort out this latest DSAR fee and this is the main topic at hand..

Thanks a lot...

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 10:45

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Originally posted by Batman View Post

I would say mainly because I believe the assignment to be incorrect, the balance assigned held more charges and PPI than the alleged balance. Plus I have only last year received a statemant off the OC when the alleged debt is supposed to be wholly assigned to the shark. Plus there not being any proper agreement - only an illegible application form. And the OC has admitted, via DSAR data, that a lawful agreement is 'not' available when I asked for one. This contrasts sharply with the DCAs push to always advise that the application form IS a proper agreement. That is why I do not acknowledge any debt ..

Hey Paul - I am all ears and bend to your greater experience here.

I just wish to sort out this latest DSAR fee and this is the main topic at hand..

Thanks a lot...

Well there is the core of your dispute.

Rather than saying you do not acknowledge any debt, i would suggest that the attack ought to be on the basis that the amount claimed is disputed.

So you need to address the DCA on these points,

You will need grounds for challenging the charges, and will need to set them out clearly and invite the DCA to comment.

you will also need to support the issue of PPI with reasons why it should be refunded.

As for the application vs agreement argument, here comes the shocker, they are 100% correct, an application is an agreement in CCA context.

s127 sub section 3 mandates what is needed to be enforced by the Court using its powers under the act.

a document whether or not in the prescribed form containing the prescribed terms signed by the debtor is all thats needed for the court to enforce under its powers.

A post it note, containing the prescribed terms, signed by you could in effect be enforced, although it is unlikely that the court would enforce such a document, although my point being is it could do so.

Even if the original is not available, the creditor could reconstruct the agreement and give evidence that this is a accurate copy from its archives, and in the absence of any positive assertion from you that the agreement was improperly executed, the court may enforce against you.

**Paul.** · 9 October 2011, 10:50

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

a helpful quote from Carey v HSBC

Second, it assumes that there is no obligation on the debtor to make out at least some sort of positive case as to improper (or non-) execution of the original agreement. If he does and for example asserts positively that although he has been using a credit card agreement for years he never actually signed an agreement, or one that complied with s61, the creditor may well have to try and find the original in order to deal with that allegation.

**Batman** · 9 October 2011, 11:06

Re: DCA misusing using Data Subject Access Request fee

Originally posted by Paul. View Post

Well there is the core of your dispute.

Rather than saying you do not acknowledge any debt, i would suggest that the attack ought to be on the basis that the amount claimed is disputed.

So you need to address the DCA on these points,

You will need grounds for challenging the charges, and will need to set them out clearly and invite the DCA to comment.

you will also need to support the issue of PPI with reasons why it should be refunded.

As for the application vs agreement argument, here comes the shocker, they are 100% correct, an application is an agreement in CCA context.

s127 sub section 3 mandates what is needed to be enforced by the Court using its powers under the act.

a document whether or not in the prescribed form containing the prescribed terms signed by the debtor is all thats needed for the court to enforce under its powers.

A post it note, containing the prescribed terms, signed by you could in effect be enforced, although it is unlikely that the court would enforce such a document, although my point being is it could do so.

Even if the original is not available, the creditor could reconstruct the agreement and give evidence that this is a accurate copy from its archives, and in the absence of any positive assertion from you that the agreement was improperly executed, the court may enforce against you.

Thanks Paul

I have been telling them these points for several years.

The OC has already given back 'some' PPI but not all.

I have advised that I will not accept any more (which they have offered) until they confirm that they have sorted the mess out with the DCA. I have always welcomed legal action to sort it out too.

Re the agreement application form.

The DCA has been telling me the application form is the lawful agreement (dated 2002) for years and set many copies - all very hard to read.

They OC says that no agreement is available which effectively makes fibbers out of the DCA as you will see.

There is also considerable doubt, despite your OC's assertions that the DCA have been assigned or purchased a legitimate debt from OC, that there was ever a legitimate assignment. EG - why did I get OC statement last year when the debt is NOT their's any more? OC has never respond to letter about this.

Given the knowledge that OC have recently admitted, in writing, that there is NO legitimate agreement as lawfully required by the CCA 1974 and as such statement off both DCA and OC are perhaps binding under section 172 of the Consumer Credit Act?

I believe BOTH OC and shark have been misleading me for years.

As they have now told me that the application form is the agreement (which the OS says is NOT available ) they would look a bit silly moving the goal post now eh at this stage?

Believe me I have tried SO hard to sort this out.

Anyway - as I say I am wishing to sort out the letter about this DSAR fee for now.

Thanks again ...

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