N Hunter and CIFAS Warning

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I have a bit of a story to tell but i'll keep it as short as possible.

A few years ago I got in a lot of debt and split up with my girlfriend. I thought I could run away from the debt without paying.(stupid I know) When I moved out from my girlfriends I told nobody of the new address - not even my bank.

When I go to the new address I opened up a basic bank account, put myself on the electoral roll and when filling out the previous address section I just used an address of a family member that I had never used before. I slowly began to open small credit accounts to try and build a history. It was as if the previous address didn't exist and as far as my credit file was concerned it didn't. That was until the companies used the electoral roll to trace me. ( I didn't realise at the time that I could use the edited register to prevent this from happening)One of the companies issued a ccj against me and registered it at this address (unknown to me).

So when the letters started coming through I decided to do the exact same thing again. I moved house and told nobody. I opened up the basic bank account again. For the previous addresses section of application forms I did the same again. This time I haven't had any letters BUT when I applied for a mortgage I was refused.I found out it was because of adverse data found at undisclosed previous addresses.

The mortgage company concerned issued a CIFAS warning for application fraud CAT4 and showed the previous undisclosed addresses. The CIFAS didnt show up on my credit file - I only found out through a SAR request. Apparently you have the CIFAS for 13 months - this has now passed. N Hunter, however, is different, they were informed but apparently you stay on their system for 6 years.

I will soon have been at my current address for 3 years and find myself in the strange situation that I have a perfect credit file (as far as I can tell on the credit expert and equifax subscriptions, which I hate paying for) but will be refused for most things as I have a CIFAS warning which has hopefully just dropped off and N hunter information. I have credit cards, bank accounts and mobile phone contracts all contributing to my credit history which were opened before the mortgage application.

I SAR'd N Hunter and all they sent me was this crappy piece of paper with the mortgage application number and the name of the company, my personal details and "applicant refer"

So I know I've done some seriously bad things ( Really I do) but I am trying to move on now. I just want to try and get a mortgage even though I don't deserve one, and ultimately if I don't get one I am fully prepared to accept this and not bother for another 6 years til everything drops off.

My questions are these -

1. What does it mean now that I am on the N Hunter database? Is every company I apply for credit with going to check this?

2. What information do they hold on me? I have already SAR'd them and they haven't sent me very much, do they have more info that I am not allowed to see?

3. If I wait til I have been in my current address for 3 years will i have a better chance of getting a mortgage? As I understand most companies only ask for 3 years address history which I almost have and my credit file shows all green for all that time with my current credit facilities.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Hi and welcome, briefly (in phone so will reply properly later)

1. N hunter is part of experian so mainly those that use experian will use it. It can also be bought by firms so don't rely on that. Also the bad thing is "applicant refer" which means the new lender can contact the old lender that added the marker to find out why they added it; usually afterwhich they add a cifas cat 4 application fraud - facility refused.

2. What you got on the SAR is it. It's literally a printout of the points checked by n hunter, these will be checked against your last application and so on. Basically the info should always be near enough the same. What's caught you is an error; you've made a mistake with employment time or with something daft like keeping the same mobile and applying for credit using it. If two identical numbers flag via a search with n hunter then the system checks for things and say you applied at x address in the past using x number then moved and used z address but applied somewhere giving the old number from x address, you're caught.

Thus to actually hide; and get away with it, you need everything from new. A blank canvas - even a new passport as they search a database for those too so getting a new one generates a new number

Point here being the words applicant refer is what is causing problems. Don't apply for ANYTHING for 12 months and then you'll be fine as the system only checks for 13 months as per cifas

3. Get a mainstream card such as Amex then you'll probably get a mortgage easier. You need to be sure there is no link and just cos your credit file doesn't show it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - it may well do on the ORIGINAL address, ie link to your current one. You can never find that out though cos to do so would mean creating a true link which would bring it all flooding back.

Hope that helps, in a nutshell - wIt until at least next christmas then SAR cifas. Don't apply for anything. You'll also never need to SAR n hunter either so long as give it a year or so now to let this adverse drop off - last thing you want is a new search to leave another for another year!

3.

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Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Thank you very much never in doubt.

1. With regard to leaving it 12 months before applying for anything else - my Cifas was created JUL 2010 and so I would expect it to come off roughly AUG 2011.
The last time I applied for something was SEP 2010(declined). Am I leaving it 12 months from the date the CIFAS drops off or 12 months from the date of the last application for credit?

2. "Point here being the words applicant refer is what is causing problems. Don't apply for ANYTHING for 12 months and then you'll be fine as the system only checks for 13 months as per cifas"
What do you mean by this? I was led to believe that information stays with N Hunter for 6 years?

3.I don't need to move house again do I? I put a brand new house phone number on my mortgage application. Does this now need to be changed for my next application? - the one in 12 months or would that flag up as fraud cos it changed since the last time? Think I'm entering confusion now.



So sorry for all the questions!!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Wouldn't it be nice if the data register entry for N Hunter Limited actually corresponded to what they do and where they are based?

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Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

I can't even find what they are registered as. I've googled the hell out of them and keep coming across the same repetitive rubbish.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Thank you very much never in doubt.

1. With regard to leaving it 12 months before applying for anything else - my Cifas was created JUL 2010 and so I would expect it to come off roughly AUG 2011. The last time I applied for something was SEP 2010(declined). Am I leaving it 12 months from the date the CIFAS drops off or 12 months from the date of the last application for credit?

Give it till about November then apply for anything, see what happens BUT make sure you use and correspond the data with the correct N Hunter details, so if you last applied saying you worked at X company for 6 years and 3 months, and this was back in January, then by November it'll be +10 months so you'd now say you worked there from X to X so it adds up.

As you have a copy of N Hunter, you should not be making the same errors again, ie you'll be fine.

2. "Point here being the words applicant refer is what is causing problems. Don't apply for ANYTHING for 12 months and then you'll be fine as the system only checks for 13 months as per cifas"
What do you mean by this? I was led to believe that information stays with N Hunter for 6 years?

Yes it does, but lenders perform varying searches. Therefore if you have a blank canvas of searches, and apply once then a second time copying the details from the first application then you'll be fine, N Hunter only flags up as a problem against a registered CIFAS. If the CIFAS has gone then N Hunter becomes less significant so long as there is nothing that makes the new lender add another due to questionable data - basically get your story straight, add the right amount of months and do things properly. N Hunter cannot ever decline you or make a lender decline you, it is the additional info provided at the point of N Hunter notification that causes damage. So usually when someone has "Applicant refer" against an application, this would suggest a cifas is also registered that will not appear on your credit file. However I had 45 pages on my N Hunter report - and I can get credit pretty easily, most the time!

I suspect, as noted originally, that it's inconsistencies you've made within applying that has caused this, plus the link to your old address may well be linking to your now current one.

3.I don't need to move house again do I? I put a brand new house phone number on my mortgage application. Does this now need to be changed for my next application? - the one in 12 months or would that flag up as fraud cos it changed since the last time? Think I'm entering confusion now.

NO! Stop applying and stop worrying about running away - stay where you are, forget a mortgage right now and concentrate on sorting the mess out which entails more waiting.

Regards to the comment about reflecting fraud, no - it does not work like that, normal daily changes are acceptable - it is main applicant and employment details they flag you on, ie bank, type of account, other cards held, length of time you have held that bank account, job type, job title, work phone number, pay, mobile number etc etc etc

Basically N Hunter bases its methods on many positions but one thing to protect you against error, is their ability to decipher those acting fraudulently against those that genuinely changed jobs/number etc. Everyone can change jobs, addresses and banks - but several at once with varying dates will pull you. So saying you moved house, jobs and banks is not a biggie - however to then change mobile number and length of time bank account held with another bank, would flag as an alert.

Hope the above helps, it is confusing so don't get drawn into this - you need to calm down, forget a mortgage and concentrate on clearing everything so wait as long as you can - there is more to life than a mortgage, plus if you screw up now and all your past comes back to haunt you, you could end up snookered for another 6 years so it may well be best to sit it out for another year then apply for a mortgage with NO other applications in between which would show your mortgage lender that you do not apply often and therefore get questions wrong, thus any N Hunter data. It is plausible and works.

best of luck - confused? Ask away

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Wouldn't it be nice if the data register entry for N Hunter Limited actually corresponded to what they do and where they are based?

It'll be registered under Experian Analytics which is the parent company, as I mentioned above......

* or at least it should be!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

It'll be registered under Experian Analytics which is the parent company, as I mentioned above......

* or at least it should be!

No - they are registered as N Hunter Ltd, of 100 Barbirolli Square, Manchester - their registered address at Companies House.

They do not, however, seem to have notified the ICO of the main reason for their existence.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

No - they are registered as N Hunter Ltd, of 100 Barbirolli Square, Manchester - their registered address at Companies House.

They do not, however, seem to have notified the ICO of the main reason for their existence.

Its an experian company, trust me!

It may well be self registered but it is linked, 100% to experian

They should be classed as a marketing "credit fraud checking service" company, which is what they are! However under experian data analytics they can perform additional duties such as what you see within the N Hunter we see in front of us today!

The question is, are they actually hiding behind experian or using their own details properly - you tell us, obviously you've searched them mate...?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Edit - N Hunter: ---> National Hunter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

& for those wondering what the hell Experian Data Analytics is - see here: ---> http://www.experian-da.com/solutions/index.html

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Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Ok, thanks again for keeping me straight!

It's all starting to make some sense now but I still have 1 more thing that's annoying me.It's this "applicant refer" thing.

The applicant refer in my case by the way, was for adverse data they found about me from a previous address.

Ok so November comes and I SAR CIFAS can see that the CIFAS marker has been removed, great.
The N hunter marker with applicant refer is still there though.
Let's say I apply for something in November as you say. The bank checks my credit file - everything looks ok. Checks CIFAS - everything ok there. But wait, N Hunter has something - "applicant refer" which was issued by ABC Bank, bank delves deeper and contacts ABC Bank and is informed about the previous addresses with all that adverse data! - DECLINE

Do I have an N Hunter "link" if you like on my credit file? Or do they send every single application for credit they receive to N Hunter regardless for checking?

Or are you saying they will definitely see the N Hunter marker sitting there but will simply choose to ignore the "applicant refer" and continue based on my credit score?

As you can see I'm a sucker for detail, at the same time though I do find it all quite interesting!

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

I will explain later (leaving for the day) - N Hunter is independent and is linked into the experian search system.

The applicant refer will be there due to a falsification between two applications, fact!

Regards to future conduct etc, lenders look at everything, the applicant refer could be fraud if it was 2 years old, thus I say wait a while - point is longer is better.

I don't get why you're so desperate and concerned due to the risk of everything coming back to bite you - just be patient.....

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Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

Cheers mate, I look forward to your full answer!

[CleverClogs (RIP)]

Re: N Hunter and CIfas warning.

I don't get why you're so desperate and concerned due to the risk of everything coming back to bite you - just be patient.....

Perhaps his tent leaks?