[DISCONTINUED] - DC not mentioned in particulars of claim

[Chole]

Hi forum members

I'm due in court in Aug 2015 to defend a claim from a dc that I think should have being thrown out but the Judge says otherwise!



BRIEF OUTLINE OF MY CASE
-Unsecured loan with MBNA

-Last payment 28 Mar 2009

-Default entry on credit file in Jun 2009

-Debt collector letter arrives Nov 2009 stating start paying them

-And that month is the start of “Pay us this amount and we’ll wipe off the rest” letters, phone calls and knocks on hse front door (all ignored)

-Late 2013, I decided to play paper table tennis with prove got to pay you full amount you claim outstanding letters

-On 6 Nov 2014 a letter arrives saying debt collector changed their name and to still continue with payment arrangements (What arrangements? Didn’t agree anything Haven't paid anything since Mar 2009)

-On 31 Dec 2014 a letter arrives saying, ‘debt’ assigned to the newly renamed debt collector. (I noticed that the same office address and same signature was on ‘new’ assignment letter)

- On 19 Mar 2015, received an amended court claim (old debt collectors name struck through and new debt collector name replaced it) and noticed that the particulars of claim did not have any details of the new debt collector ie only previous two debt collector details was included on the PofC.

-Queried this with the court in a N244 appl (thinking Judge would throw it seeing that it’s the old debt collector details) and instead received a court date for 17 Aug 2015 in the Strand, London stating won’t last more than 90 mins AND by 15 Jul 2015, the claimant has to send me the default notice from MBNA and documents showing how the claimant obtains its interest in this debt adding commercially sensitive matters may be redacted.

-Also a mediation letter arrived with the court papers. Have to reply by 2 Jul 2015 whether going to take telephone mediation or not. (This one is a no brainer though because still awaiting their proof that the Judge has ordered them to send me so can I mediate?)

-Applied for a SAR and at first MBNA said haven’t got papers anymore. Then 11 June 2015 a letter arrived saying they’ve changed their mind and will contact me within 40 days.

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More has gone on but that’s the brief background to my plea for defence assistance from forum members

More than once, I’ve being advised that because court claim has started it isn’t statue barred (The debt collector was crafty. 28 Mar 2009 to 28 Mar 2015 is 6yrs and court papers arrived 19 Mar 2015!!!!)

Debt collector even arrogant to inform me that ‘the Claimant does not rely upon a default notice’ Well the Judge told them and me otherwise – and wants to see the original too!

At the moment, I have to wait until 15 Jul 2015 to see if they succeeded in getting the default notice from MBNA. However, not to sit around because Judge wants my defence by 3 Aug 2015, I’m wanting to prepare for battle with any suggestions to block their attempts for a profitable CCJ.

I think I have unwittingly aided the debt collector because MBNA are digging deep to find my papers including the default notice no doubt and so may have speeded up the digging for the debt collector

Any suggestions is appreciated on how I can proceed from here with my defence.

Willing to upload the papers if that will assist with suggestions

I see this as a chance to start again and another pair of eyes is always good because you may see something that can send the dc packing either before the court date or what I could point out to the Judge.

Oh yes, also learned because under £10,000 a CPR 31.14 doesn’t apply and so sent a CPR18 request that was still rebutted and my requests for answers to form my defence was ignored or they skirted the question

Thanks for reading this far and hoping can get some help here.

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Hello Chole and to AAD.

I'm sure we can help you with this claim.

Can you start by sending a copy of the summons (Form N1) by email to Niddy (forum owner) using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk and a copy to me using PlanB@all-about-debt.co.uk

It looks like this claim is in the Small Claims Court not Fast-Track (you hint that it's under £10k)

We look forward to helping you.

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

- On 19 Mar 2015, received an amended court claim (old debt collectors name struck through and new debt collector name replaced it) and noticed that the particulars of claim did not have any details of the new debt collector ie only previous two debt collector details was included on the PofC.

-Queried this with the court in a N244 appl (thinking Judge would throw it seeing that it’s the old debt collector details) and instead received a court date for 17 Aug 2015 in the Strand, London stating won’t last more than 90 mins AND by 15 Jul 2015, the claimant has to send me the default notice from MBNA and documents showing how the claimant obtains its interest in this debt adding commercially sensitive matters may be redacted.

-Also a mediation letter arrived with the court papers. Have to reply by 2 Jul 2015 whether going to take telephone mediation or not.

Can you clarify something. Have you filed a Defence and if so can you email Niddy and me a copy of it?

It looks as if you have because you have a hearing date on 17th August which suggests the claim has been allocated to your local county court.

Can you also clarify what you mean by an "amended court claim" on 19th March 2015. Do you mean that the pleadings (Particulars of Claim) were amended by the original Claimant or do you mean that the original Claimant was substituted by an alternative Claimant?

I note you have a Mediation appointment set up for 2nd July.

Final BIG question - what evidence do you have that this debt is statute barred?

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

I'm doing my best to piece this all together.

Have you received Directions from the court which require you to produce a Witness Statement and any documents which you intend to rely on in court, and if so by what date?

And a silly question but who is the current Claimant on the assumption that it's not MBNA but a debt purchaser who was assigned the account? And who are the solicitors acting for the Claimant.

Plan B x

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Hi Chole and welcome to AAD from me too

Just reading through....a few more questions I'm afraid, to clarify

• Is the defence due by 3rd August an amended defence pending production of the DN/other docs ordered by the judge by 15th July. (ie, have you already submitted an "embarrassed" or holding defence?)

• Have you sent a formal CCA Request under s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act? (For a copy of the agreement). If so when, and what have they sent in response?

• When was the credit taken out - was it pre April 2007?

To answer some of your queries:
While it's true that issuing a court claim does pause the Statute Barred clock, if the claim is discontinued or struck out then the limitation period continues from the original date in March 2009.

With regards to mediation, we've had a few on here where mediation has been refused on the grounds of documents not yet provided. The mediation service shouldn't do this but some are asking if docs are pending.

Technically CPR 31.14 doesn't apply to Small Claims but we tend to send one anyway, on recommendation of our preferred solicitor. We also send a CCA Request if one hasn't been done in the last 3 months. If you haven't sent a recent CCA Request it's important to send one straight away.
Template: http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...l=1#post495038
Re the DN - very often the original company will not keep copies of the actual Default Notice sent - instead they will do a recon, repopulating a DN template with your details. Any chance you could find the original?


As PlanB says, I'm sure we can help you but we will need unedited copies of all the documents you have (in pdf form if possible) to evaluate the case.
Send to PlanB and Niddy our webmaster as mentioned above, and they will copy me in. Don't worry, it's perfectly secure.

Elsa x

[Chole]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Thanks PlanB and Undercover Elsa for replying.

There's a lot to take in from your responses

Update today is that I've received Deeds of Assignments at 7:55am today special delivery. (Good grief can make a door stopper the way so much paper - mainly blacked out pages. Waste of paper. Poor trees!)

Didn't request them in CPR18 but in defence statement and cheeky claimant says going to disobey the Judge by not sending any Default Notice. Says not needed!




@ PlanB
Done!

Sent a pieced together PDF to emails you gave detailing more of case. If need more details let me know please as unsure what to send as so many papers gone back and forth and dont have a scanner at home (Gotta go library with only 1hr slot at a time. Their scanner so slow too).

Included the full essential bits of N1 form you request x 2 separately as didn't include in my PDF.



@ Undercover Elsa
Is the defence due by 3rd August an amended defence pending production of the DN/other docs ordered by the judge by 15th July.
Correct

Have you sent a formal CCA Request under s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act?
Not to new owners

Old owners sent back a badly photocopied T&C back and front was just about readable but didn't request under act just asked for proof got to pay them

When was the credit taken out - was it pre April 2007?
Took out unsecured loan in May 2003 then they suggested to increase amount in Dec 2005 (signed a new amount contract).

Couldn't pay no more from 26 Mar 2009. Attempted to ask for reduced payment until my finances increase again and MBNA didn't want to know.

Went silent then first of debt collector demands arrived Nov 2009.

To answer some of your queries:
With regards to mediation, we've had a few on here where mediation has been refused
This is their 2nd request for mediation.

Advised mediators in Apr 2015 can't mediate as no documents to mediate with. Now come back again in 24 Jun 2015 asking for telephone mediation and respond by 1st or 2nd Jul 2015. Will be telephoning tomorrow because they haven't sent Default Notice as per Judge request.

We also send a CCA Request if one hasn't been done in the last 3 months.
Haven't and so will look at that request link (thanks) but will wait and see what PlanB and you suggests prior to sending. Got time I think though because Judge wants both sides papers by Mon 3 Aug 2015 (So deadline to send defence is Thu 30 Jul 2015).

Re the DN Any chance you could find the original?
Never got one from MBNA to say sold debt to debt collector.

Requested in a SAR now and awaiting it's delivery.

Being Mar 2009 and now June 2015 - I have to wait and see if MBNA can supply it

they will copy me in
Okay.

Thanks!
A fresh professional look at this, I guarantee you'll all see something I can't

Again anything missing that you know is essential that claimant has to comply, please let me know and will get to the library to scan as my mobile phone captures are not sharp when comes to pictures with wording in it.

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Not proud that defaulted however rather pay MBNA full amount over time than give a debt collector such profit off me

Thanks again all for replying.

Off to send to those email addresses right now.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Thanks Chole, you're doing great.

I would definitely send a proper CCA Request off urgently today, send it recorded delivery along with a £1 postal order, if they don't comply that will form a major part of your defence. (That needs to go directly to the claimant.)

Elsa x

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

If you'd like us to move your thread to our private, secure Legal area, so the DCA can't see your game plan, you'll need to join AAD+.
It also gives you access to further templates and resources: http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/aad-members.php

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Sent a pieced together PDF to emails you gave detailing more of case. If need more details let me know please as unsure what to send as so many papers gone back and forth and dont have a scanner at home (Gotta go library with only 1hr slot at a time. Their scanner so slow too).

Included the full essential bits of N1 form you request x 2 separately as didn't include in my PDF.

Your emails have arrived. Niddy has asked you to re-send the claim form without blanking out your details.

The summons was 'solicitor service' not a MCOL computer generated one. It appears to be dated 16th December 2014 so can you confirm the exact date you were served with it (received it in the post?). The solicitor has a limited amount of time to serve the summons after it has been issued.

Because it was served by the solicitor (not MCOL) it is being dealt with by your local County Court and not awaiting allocation from the Northampton CCBC. Hence the confusion as to whether a Defence had been filed or not.

Your PDF compilation of documents (interspersed with your comments and notes written on them) is helpful for general background, but you've only included snippets and we need to see each of the documents in full without the dates and names cropped.

Can you send the whole copy of the judge's Directions.

The Directions ask for proof of the Claimant's interest in the debt with "commercially sensitive matters redacted". He's asking them to satisfy the court that they have the legal right to collect the debt since they are not the original creditor. The judge is referring to the Deed of Assignment which is what you seem to have received in the post this morning.

Those Directions also ask the Claimant to produce the Default Notice. The Claimant has responded by saying that the DN is not relevant because the debt was a fixed term loan which has expired date-wise.

You may find it easier if you don't try to second guess what's going on or look for shenanigans by the Claimant's solicitors. We will do our best to establish the situation as it develops and explain it to you. These posts are getting a bit long so maybe the way forward is for us to ask you one question at a time now that we have got the general picture.

The Claimant is PRA and their solicitors are Judge & Priestly.

We look forward to doing our best to help. As Elsa says, send off that CCA request pronto.

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

Can you email a copy of the embarrassed Defence which you have already filed please.

Plan B x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

An unedited version please

[Chole]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

@Undercover Elsa
I would definitely send a proper CCA Request off urgently today, send it recorded delivery along with a £1 postal order. (That needs to go directly to the claimant.)
Will look at your link tomorrow and run post office then

so the DCA can't see your game plan, you'll need to join AAD+.
Attempting to do so and keep getting error message when click order button

Suggestions how to get around this message?



@PlanB
Niddy has asked you to re-send the claim form without blanking out your details.
Saw his emails before read this.

Had replied but reading these posts, seems still incorrect.

The summons was 'solicitor service' not a MCOL computer generated one.
No clue what this means?

It appears to be dated 16th December 2014 so can you confirm the exact date you were served with it
Arrived (not recorded delivery) on 19th Mar 2015 and returned Acknowledgement of Service on 21 Mar 2015.

Thing is wasn't even the original. It was a photocopy that I received.

BTW: Telephoned court today and said as long as got seal, they can serve whenever and amendment doesn't need court prior approval.


we need to see each of the documents in full without the dates and names cropped.
Oops!

As explained in email, I thought would be available for public download hence the cut and paste. I also didn't want to bore the reader with pages and pages just to get overall gist

Can you send the whole copy of the judge's Directions.
Will do

He's asking them to satisfy the court that they have the legal right to collect the debt since they are not the original creditor.
I asked them too and solicitor skirted my question.

The judge is referring to the Deed of Assignment which is what you seem to have received in the post this morning.
Wouldn't call it that meself as even with quick glance, no price given for what paid between them. So as said earlier post - waste of trees and black ink to show me a few signatures for the write off from MBNA's underwriters

You may find it easier if you don't try to second guess what's going on or look for shenanigans by the Claimant's solicitors.
Especially as I aint got a real clue what's going on. Only learning from other case studies on other various internet websites and forums

The Claimant is PRA and their solicitors are Judge & Priestly.
Correct

Can I ask does it make a difference being disclosed?

Suppose their representatives are reading this thread?

As Elsa says, send off that CCA request pronto.
Tomorrow now as has being a long day and knackered

Can you email a copy of the embarrassed Defence which you have already filed please.
Is that what it was called? Didn't know that.

Can I submit once joined?

It's not scanned yet and will go library tomorrow and see how much can get done in a 1hr slot. Their scanner is so slow


@In-Doubt
An unedited version please
Okay

Once scanned tomorrow.

[Chole]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla



Am willing but shut out!

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18368[/ATTACH]

Am willing but shut out!

Were you trying to pay with bitcoins

Plan B x

[PlanB]

Re: DC not mentioned in particulars of claim yet Judge gives them a 2nd chance to carry on court cla

The summons was 'solicitor service' not a MCOL computer generated one.
No clue what this means?

It appears to be dated 16th December 2014 so can you confirm the exact date you were served with it
Arrived (not recorded delivery) on 19th Mar 2015 and returned Acknowledgement of Service on 21 Mar 2015.

Thing is wasn't even the original. It was a photocopy that I received.

BTW: Telephoned court today and said as long as got seal, they can serve whenever and amendment doesn't need court prior approval.

Can you check with the court the actual issue date of that summons. The copy you've sent is the amended summons although I suspect the date on it is the original since the amendment is handwritten i.e.16th December 2014. They have four calendar months to serve it from the issue date so I fear they made it within the deadline.

A DN is not needed since this was a fixed-term loan which has now expired. The DJ may not have known that when he prepared those Directions.

If you have posted about this claim on another internet forum can you send me the link by email (don't post it on here) so we can see what you've been advised so far.

We'll look at everything else when you send it. You have time on your side

Plan B x