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  • Linux Mint 13

    If you followed my other thread, you will know that I had a disastrous extrepience with a laptop running the Windows 8 (Hate) operating system. If you haven't come across this latest obscenity from Microbug, then it is absolutely vital that you learn one thing – if Windows Hate is mentioned, run like hell in the opposite direction.

    There is no point in duplicating content which was printed on the other thread, so I will only briefly summarise the difficulties. Users are faced with the nightmare of having idiotic menus come on to the screen, blocking out what they are trying to do, every time they attempt to move the cursor. There are programs such as Skip Metro Suite and Classic Shell which are supposed to overcome the problem, but they do not.

    The nearest comparison I can make, for those who are used to driving vehicles, would be if every time you moved the steering wheel, a silly display came up over the windscreen and stopped you from seeing where you were going. How long could you put up with that?

    The PC which I bought in November is now being returned to Amazon for a refund, as there is nothing which can be done to transform Windows Hate into something usable. It isn't an operating system, it is a disease. The problem is made far worse by the fact that Microbug seem committed to this insanity, prompting many in the industry to speculate whether their reign may be coming to an end. They certainly seem entirely oblivious to the needs of their own customers, and the PC-using public as a whole.

    So, despite being a long time satisfied user of Windows XP and 7, I have now decided to experiment with Linux. Having read copious articles and web pages about it, I decided that Linux Mint 13 was the right operating system to experiment with. There is a Linux Mint 14, but it is not a long-term supported stable release, unlike 13 which will be supported until April 2017.

    I started to try to find a way of installing Mint on my old netbook, alongside XP, at midnight. It was not easy. The standard of tutorials and instruction is pitiful in the extreme, which is something that the Linux community will need to address if they are ever going to attract enough users. In the end, I had to work out how to install the system entirely by myself, taking bits of information from here and bits from there. That is nowhere near good enough – there needs to be step-by-step instructions!

    As I write this, it is 4:09am, so it has taken just over four hours to work out how to get Linux Mint 13 installed on the system, and make it happen. A large percentage of this time was spent sitting watching software install, as there are a lot of open source programs which come with Mint.

    How will it work out for me? Well, the basics shouldn't be too bad. I am already used to browsing with Firefox, using Thunderbird for email, writing and using spreadsheets in Libre Office, and using VLC media player to play video. I will miss foobar2000 desperately, unless someone has come up with a Linux compatible audio player that is somewhere near the same standard. Music is a huge part of my life, and it is all organised with foobar2000.

    The biggest problem will come with processing audio files. Audacity is a program I use a lot, and that will apparently work with Linux. The one weakness in Audacity, as admitted by those who develop it, is the noise reduction feature. The professional standard Izotope RX-2 software, which I use to reduce noise on audio files transferred from 78rpm, is irreplaceable, and this is the reason why I will never be able to replace Windows completely.

    Anyway, I am writing this post on Libre Office powered by my new Mint installation, and have posted it to the forum using Firefox on Linux Mint. It is a significant start.

    One immediate difficulty I have encountered is that the trackpad, the equivalent of the mouse, operates differently on Linux than it does on Windows. That is not going to help! I will keep this thread up to date with developments, in case there is anyone else out there who wants to familiarise themselves with Linux as a potential safety valve should Microbug extend its insanity to an intolerable amplitude.

    SH

    PS I'll make a detailed post later today to show how I managed to get Linux installed, in case anyone else wants to try.

  • #2
    Re: Linux Mint 13

    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
    There is a Linux Mint 14, but it is not a long-term supported stable release, unlike 13 which will be supported until April 2017.
    LTS releases are good, but unless you have specific reasons, going with the latest main release is often better. Depends on you needs really. Newer releases come with newer kernels, so better hardware support and drivers out of the box. Plus more up to date software. LTS has as extended support cycle, but the main upshot of that is backported bug fix releases that would probably have come with the latest non LTS updates anyway.

    Then again, LTS saves periodic upgrades. A big plus if you don't want to go through that.

    That doesn't bother me, so I upgrade these laptops every 6 months. Only takes a couple of hours.

    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
    I started to try to find a way of installing Mint on my old netbook, alongside XP, at midnight. It was not easy. The standard of tutorials and instruction is pitiful in the extreme, which is something that the Linux community will need to address if they are ever going to attract enough users. In the end, I had to work out how to install the system entirely by myself, taking bits of information from here and bits from there. That is nowhere near good enough – there needs to be step-by-step instructions!
    You should have asked. It's really quite simple.

    WindowsDualBoot - Community Ubuntu Documentation

    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
    I will miss foobar2000 desperately, unless someone has come up with a Linux compatible audio player that is somewhere near the same standard. Music is a huge part of my life, and it is all organised with foobar2000.
    I use Clementine Music Player

    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
    The biggest problem will come with processing audio files. Audacity is a program I use a lot, and that will apparently work with Linux. The one weakness in Audacity, as admitted by those who develop it, is the noise reduction feature. The professional standard Izotope RX-2 software, which I use to reduce noise on audio files transferred from 78rpm, is irreplaceable, and this is the reason why I will never be able to replace Windows completely.
    An older version than the latest reported works well under Wine.

    WineHQ - iZotope RX

    May be worth giving the version you have a spin.

    Or as said preciously, you could run XP in virtualbox inside ubuntu/mint

    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
    One immediate difficulty I have encountered is that the trackpad, the equivalent of the mouse, operates differently on Linux than it does on Windows.
    Differently how? Some behaviour can be configured depending on make of the trackpad?

    Also depending on make, there may be better backported software or kernel drivers available for it.
    Last edited by Riz; 7 January 2013, 07:39.
    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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    • #3
      Re: Linux Mint 13

      Right, here is how I managed to get Linux Mint 13 installed on my system. Obviously, there is no guarantee that it will work the same way for everyone, but I offer this in the hope that it helps.

      Firstly, there are a lot of articles which claim that you need to be able to burn a Digital Versatile Disc in order to install Linux. I didn't do this, and I still installed it and got it to work. I used a 16GB Kingston USB stick, but I'm not even sure that this is necessary (I think you could install Linux using Virtual Clone Drive software, even without a USB stick).

      There is also software known as Unetbootin, which SourceForge claim allows you to create a bootable USB drive. It only has old versions of Linux, so it seems as though no-one is maintaining it any more. You can install a version which you have custom downloaded, but the software just got to 43% and then hung for ever every time I tried to use it. That was a complete failure.

      The software which did work for me was Universal USB Installer from pendrivelinux.com. It made it easy to create a newly formatted USB stick which contained the Linux Mint ISO file. Once you have the stick, there are a million complicated instructions for trying to get the PC to boot from it, but I found there was no need to do this. The drive just showed up under “Computer” as “Install Linux Mint 13”. I just double-clicked to open it, and one of the icons included was “Mint4Win.exe” I opened that, and clicked on “Install Inside Windows”. Obviously, I was not looking to get rid of the existing system, Windows XP, but just to have Linux run alongside it.

      When the installation had finished, I just had to select “Reboot Now”, and the computer booted up with a choice of either Windows XP or Linux Mint. I chose Linux Mint, and from there it was just a case of following the menus on screen. It takes a long time to get all of the software downloaded, but it means you've got most of what you need the very first time you boot up the PC.

      There are obviously other ways to install Linux, but that is what worked for me. Now I can test it out without losing any of the functionality offered by Windows XP.

      SH

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      • #4
        Re: Linux Mint 13

        Thank you rizzle for that comprehensive reply.

        I will give the Clementine player a try. I saw that you recommended it to Niddy on one of the other threads.

        That is interesting, about RX running well under Wine. If that happened with the new version, it would free me completely from dependency on Windows. I'm not desperate to get away from it, as I think XP and 7 are decent operating systems, but knowing how to install and work in Linux is never going to be a bad idea. It gives me a lot more options for the future.

        It is still early days – I only used Linux for the first time at 4:05 this morning!

        SH

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        • #5
          Re: Linux Mint 13

          SH - Rizzle is our resident Linux user so knows a lot of the stuff that goes on. I'd ask him if you get stuck.

          I'm still considering switching a lappy to it but just don't have 4hrs spare sadly
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          • #6
            Re: Linux Mint 13

            Originally posted by Never-In-Doubt View Post
            SH - Rizzle is our resident Linux user so knows a lot of the stuff that goes on. I'd ask him if you get stuck.

            I'm still considering switching a lappy to it but just don't have 4hrs spare sadly
            automate it then and leave it overnight/until you have time to get back to it and reap the rewards
            I am an IT Professional with a Background in most Microsoft Based Technologies. Currently Proud to Work at one of the Leading UK Universities. I have that Mentality of "If I can provide Useful Input - then I will Try my best to do so"

            Life is full of Ups and Downs. Shame it just aint simple.

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            • #7
              Re: Linux Mint 13

              Also on most installers you fill in the basic install details, sort partitioning etc which doesn't take very long.

              Then you just confirm you want to install, and leave it to it.

              I think I had it all done in less than an hour when I did this laptop. Same when I install onto a VM.

              Once installed and booted you may want to spend some time tweaking things to your liking and installing additional software, but getting a functional basic system up and running is surprisingly quick.
              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

              If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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              • #8
                Re: Linux Mint 13

                I have now been using my Linux Mint installation for three days. It seems like a lot longer, which is a positive sign that I am getting along well with it. Initial impressions are highly positive, although there are still some rough edges which need to be ironed out.

                The early hours were simple enough, as many of the programs which come pre-installed with Linux are the same ones I've always used in Windows – Firefox browser, Thunderbird email client, LibreOffice word processor, VLC Media Player for video and streaming audio.

                The one program which is still giving me trouble is the LibreOffice writer. The spellcheck function is simply not working. I set it to English (UK), and it just allows everything! Even if I type something such as hhglrhlhfdyxzd, which is not a word in my dictionary, it still doesn't put the line underneath it and highlight it as an error. Whether this is a Linux related problem or not I don''t know, but I never had any problem with this feature in Windows.

                Firefox and Thunderbird work perfectly, and I was quickly able to access the best radio station in the world (WCPE North Carolina), by copying and pasting the Ogg Vorbis stream URL into VLC Media Player (using “Open Network Stream”). Videos play without any trouble.

                I don't think any of the supplied audio players match foobar2000, but all of them seem to play audio well enough. I was able to play WAV, FLAC, OGG and MP3 files in several different players. None of the players can handle foobar2000 playlists (“.fpl”), but Clementine can create “.xspf” playlists which open in either Clementine itself or the default “Movie Player”.

                Two days ago Vossy posted on another thread, about a browser called SRWare Iron. I downloaded it, and the combination of Linux Mint 13 and Iron is far and away the fastest browsing I have ever experienced.

                I'm not yet at the stage where I bow down in worship at statues of Mr. Torvalds, but I have already reached the stage where I am considering buying a refurbished PC for the sole purpose of installing Linux. It seems to be much faster and easier to use for most computing tasks than even the good versions of Windows (XP and 7). If I had a dedicated Linux PC, I could connect it to the internet and just dedicate my main PC to audio restoration using Audacity and Izotope RX-2.

                There is still the issue of the trackpad, but this may be unique to the Samsung netbook and not affect any PC with a standard mouse. In Windows XP, the pad moves the cursor, and you can also select text or “double tap” to open icons. In Linux, you can only move the cursor. You need to use the buttons below the trackpad to select anything.

                The next stage is to get Wine installed and tested, to see if it is possible to run RX2 on a Linux system. That doesn't seem as though it will be easy. Having looked at some of the material on Wine, I feel like a hurdler looking at a pole vault bar.

                Niddy, although it took me four hours to get Mint installed and fully working (as a complete newbie), it wouldn't have been necessary to spend all of those four hours on that task alone. You could easily have your laptop open letting Linux install while you are working on other projects, as so much of the time is spent waiting. This would be especially true if you had offline work you could be doing on another PC while the internet connection was plugged into the laptop.

                SH

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                • #9
                  Re: Linux Mint 13

                  Sorry to hear of your woes, ScabHunter, as my experience of Windows 8 has been the exact opposite. It works beautifully on my machine!

                  I have used Linux Ubuntu a lot in the past, but Linux just doesn't get on with my current AMD Radeon card and it was the same with Mint. This is a common problem when using Radeon cards. I'm sure there would be a way to fix it if I knew my way around Linux without using a GUI but I'm just not that familiar with it under the bonnet.

                  I may give Mint 13 a whirl soon though. Hopefully they may have addressed the video card issue by now.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Linux Mint 13

                    Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
                    There is still the issue of the trackpad, but this may be unique to the Samsung netbook and not affect any PC with a standard mouse. In Windows XP, the pad moves the cursor, and you can also select text or ***8220;double tap***8221; to open icons. In Linux, you can only move the cursor. You need to use the buttons below the trackpad to select anything.
                    For most touchpads you can configure tapping etc, even if it doesn't work on the standard set up.

                    Install and run gpointing-device-settings

                    That may give you options to configure what you want.

                    My touchpad likely has different options to yours, but....

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                    I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Linux Mint 13

                      Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
                      The next stage is to get Wine installed and tested, to see if it is possible to run RX2 on a Linux system. That doesn't seem as though it will be easy. Having looked at some of the material on Wine, I feel like a hurdler looking at a pole vault bar.
                      Not really as difficult as you may think.

                      Wine - Community Ubuntu Documentation
                      I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                      If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Linux Mint 13

                        Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
                        The one program which is still giving me trouble is the LibreOffice writer. The spellcheck function is simply not working. I set it to English (UK), and it just allows everything! Even if I type something such as hhglrhlhfdyxzd, which is not a word in my dictionary, it still doesn't put the line underneath it and highlight it as an error. Whether this is a Linux related problem or not I don''t know, but I never had any problem with this feature in Windows.
                        Well, first the very obvious.....

                        Do you have "Check spelling as you type" set in Options > Language Settings > Writing Aids ?

                        Also make sure the locale and default language are set correctly.

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                        I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Linux Mint 13

                          Note: I have a newer version of Libreoffice than you will have, so my option dialogue may be slightly different to yours.
                          I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Linux Mint 13

                            Originally posted by rizzle View Post
                            Well, first the very obvious.....

                            Do you have "Check spelling as you type" set in Options > Language Settings > Writing Aids ?

                            Also make sure the locale and default language are set correctly.
                            Interesting.

                            Someone on the Linux Mint forums suggested opening the terminal and typing

                            sudo apt-get install myspell-en-gb

                            I did that, and it seemed to install something which wasn't there before. Then I made sure that those settings were right, and they were already as they should be.

                            Anyway, whatever solved the problem, it is now working as it should.

                            Thanks, Rizzle!

                            SH

                            PS Now to look at the other posts.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Linux Mint 13

                              Originally posted by ScabHunter View Post
                              Interesting.

                              Someone on the Linux Mint forums suggested opening the terminal and typing

                              sudo apt-get install myspell-en-gb
                              Something along those lines was going to be my next suggestion if the above didn't work.

                              Libreoffice on Linux uses a standard spell checking engine that has to be installed as well as Libreoffice in order for it to work. It isn't installed, or hasn't got the UK English dictionary for it installed, Libreoffice will just fail to be able to spell check.
                              I'm an official AAD Moderator and also a volunteer, here to help make the forum run smoothly. Any views or opinions are mine and not the official line of AAD. Similarly, any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability. If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional - Find a Solicitor or go to the National Probono Centre.

                              If you spot an abusive or libellous post then please report it by Clicking Here. If you need to contact me, for instance if I've issued you a warning, moved, edited or deleted your post, please send me a message by clicking my username.

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