Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

[gravytrain]

Hi
Well the question is in the title really, a pal as asked me if his PPI payout will reset the SB clock on his almost five year old debt, it is in Scotland. All of the payout will be credited to the defaulted account.

To be honest I do not know and hoped someone on here would be able to point me to the relevant authority.

Many thanks

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

No

PPI is refunded retrospectively so in theory is applied as a refund before the product commenced, as though it never existed.

So although the date it's applied may well show July 2013; that's irrelevant as a refund would cancel the policy as though the event never occurred.

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Thanks Niddy. I had not thought if it form that angle, it occurred to me that perhaps it was not the debtor who was paying the debt but the creditor, so maybe he could not be said to acknowledge.

The problem is that I can also think of contrary arguments like, the letter claiming the PPI was an acknowledgment of the debt, and although the money was refunded in order to put the account back into into a position it would have been in, it was still credited to the account on the date it was.

I am not being argumentative(as if I would) because for all I know you may be right (in fact i think you are) but I would like to see some authority, this must have come up in court at some point surely, and wondered if anyone knew of any.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Thanks Niddy. I had not thought if it form that angle, it occurred to me that perhaps it was not the debtor who was paying the debt but the creditor, so maybe he could not be said to acknowledge.

The problem is that I can also think of contrary arguments like, the letter claiming the PPI was an acknowledgment of the debt, and although the money was refunded in order to put the account back into into a position it would have been in, it was still credited to the account on the date it was.

I am not being argumentative(as if I would) because for all I know you may be right (in fact i think you are) but I would like to see some authority, this must have come up in court at some point surely, and wondered if anyone knew of any.

There is no authority, it is based on the FOS guidelines and they always clarify that PPI is retrospectively added. It can't be any other way can it? At the end of the day the PPI is reversed as though it never occurred so regardless when they actually refund the premium, it is not actually a refund, it is a cancellation so the funds are literally to offset anything you may have been charged and the award must put you in a position as if the incident (or cause of event) never occurred.

It's quite factual.

Reclaiming PPI is not acknowledging anything, how is it?

That said, if people claim UE we never suggest they do a PPI reclaim - what would be the point? Instead, usually you do a PPI reclaim if you think the premiums will be enough to pay of the debt and/or if you use it to lower the balance to do a F&F.

If you're fighting UE then you would never do a PPI reclaim.

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

I think the FOS uses the phrase "put the account back into the position it would have been i prior..." i don't think have not seen the word retrospective used in the redress guidelines, although I could be wrong.

I wonder if the position is a black and white s you say, looking around other forums I see one or two instances where creditors have alleged just the opposite, unfortunately none of these were resolved in either way.

I would certainly use your argument to defend the position that the refund did not reset the clock, I think that there is also the point that the claim whilst acknowledging the agreement does not acknowledge the debt, as is true in the case of a CCA request for instance.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

I think the FOS uses the phrase "put the account back into the position it would have been i prior..." i don't think have not seen the word retrospective used in the redress guidelines, although I could be wrong.

Re-read what you wrote mate - the meaning of retrospective is just that! Whether they use that exact term or not is here nor there - it has the same fundamental outcome/meaning...

I wonder if the position is a black and white s you say, looking around other forums I see one or two instances where creditors have alleged just the opposite, unfortunately none of these were resolved in either way.

It is black and white. Hence there is nothing anywhere about this, well nothing substantive anyway

I would certainly use your argument to defend the position that the refund did not reset the clock, I think that there is also the point that the claim whilst acknowledging the agreement does not acknowledge the debt, as is true in the case of a CCA request for instance.

Well that's the argument I would also use....

The FOS don't have anything as such on what they'd do if someone was arguing CCA matters (rightly so) but this explains the main scenarios --> how does the ombudsman approach redress where a PPI policy has been mis-sold?

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Hm well thanks for helping clarify some of the arguments, i an still unsure however, the term retrospective to me means the same as from the beginning(ab initio), or that the agreement should reset to its original position, to me the guidance does not say that, the remedy is to repair the current financiak position rather than return the agreement to a former state.

My mention of the reference to the agreement in a request rather than the debt refers to the SOL of course which refers to the debt.

Perhaps I am over thinking this(it wouldn't be the first time)

[SXGuy]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Theres one way to settle this. Just try and find a high court judgement where the claim succeeds based on PPI reclaim resetting an SB debt.

I think Niddy would know of one if there was, and i know Paul couldnt resist commenting if there were.

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Theres one way to settle this. Just try and find a high court judgement where the claim succeeds based on PPI reclaim resetting an SB debt.

I think Niddy would know of one if there was, and i know Paul couldnt resist commenting if there were.

Yes which was why I posted here, if there isn't of course it probably means that Niddys contention is correct, I cannot see that this situation has not come up before. In fact I know it has.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

To be honest there is a lot of ambiguity over SB as a whole what with these causes of action and stuff.

I guess it'll be a case by case basis and that is what we'd work towards. I still reiterate my previous point, why reclaim PPI on a debt unless it will clear the debt when it's so close to being SB? That's nuts - at least do it AFTER you believe it to be SB if at all. However they may still pay it into the SB account, and not directly to the debtor/claimant.

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

I agree potty, but people do. Interesting what you say about claiming after the SB period, in Scotland of course the debt is not only uneforceable post SB but extinguished, there would be no debt to pay off.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

I agree potty, but people do. Interesting what you say about claiming after the SB period, in Scotland of course the debt is not only uneforceable post SB but extinguished, there would be no debt to pay off.

Exactly and you are allowed a period of time after you first became aware of the mis-sell. It's not your fault you never knew about it till a spam phone call explained that you might now even know you had it, so you sent of a SAR and low and behold you did -

Point is, it's easier to blag post SB - especially oop Norf

[gravytrain]

Re: Does a PPI payout reset the statute bar period

Exactly and you are allowed a period of time after you first became aware of the mis-sell. It's not your fault you never knew about it till a spam phone call explained that you might now even know you had it, so you sent of a SAR and low and behold you did -

Point is, it's easier to blag post SB - especially oop Norf

Tis true, but what is done is done sadly