Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

[winjas]

Evening

Problem need help solving..

Had £1100 in bank, needed to book £1000 flights to visit family (2people).. Went to book online, came back as "card declined". So i check my balance and amount available is £1000 less (i.e. they pre-authorised some how and yet declined it at same time?!).

So now i am left with NO flights booked and no money in account to try and book again. So i call Halifax and ask them to scrub the pre-authorisation. Get told "cant do that sir, airline may still charge the amount thats the whole point of the authorisation". Call airline agent, he confirms that there is no booking, nothing will be charged and i can advise my bank to return the funds".

Phone bank again......"no i am sorry sir, it cannot be removed, but dont worry it will drop off and re-credit to your account in 21days if not charged"...

WTH? So they leave me with no money to book flights, telling me to wait three weeks and not to worry! We urgently needed to book those flights and cant wait three weeks to try and book again?

Any laws or rules that i can say to bank? Surely i am entitled to my funds cleared again as even airline says?

Any how the hell can i stop this mess again? Seems more likely its the banks fault so surely it will happen again?

[Pixie]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

That's ridiculous! Why should you have to wait 21 days to get your own money back?

Try emailing David Nicholson, the CEO of Halifax davidnicholson@halifax.co.uk

You could perhaps also try emailing the CEO of the airline you were trying to book with. Have a look at CEO e-mail addresses - CEO email address - chief executive officer - managing director list - UK - US - Asia - customer services - customer care to find email addresses.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

Hi Winjas

I totally understand your problem as I have had the same issue when booking hotels when traveling for work. Pre-authorization is a real PITA especially when you use a debit card.

I was given the same run around as you, and this is my limited understanding of how it works.

The retailer makes a 'pre-authorization' on the card/account. This is to check that you have sufficient funds to cover the bill. So what happens is the funds are 'allocated' until such time that the retailer then issues an 'authorization' code.

If no 'authorization' code is submitted by the retailer, then the transaction is considered not completed therefore the funds are then 'released'.

This can indeed take 21 days, which I know from very bitter experience.

So what can you do about it? Unfortunately from my experience very little. The bank will blame the retailer, the retailer will say refer to the bank. Someone somewhere however is profiting from this money being 'held'.

Someone in my bank told me that this is the 'card issuer'. So if your bank card is a Visa debit card then apparently it is 'Visa' who are holding the funds. How true this is I do not know.

Sorry I can't be more positive on this one, just another example of how us little people are screwed by the banking system.

SnV

[mgfboy]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

So why cant the flight people now speak to the bank to see that the amount is there and release the tickets. Also I think you need to find out why the payment was declined, if the amount has been allocated.

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

So why cant the flight people now speak to the bank to see that the amount is there and release the tickets. Also I think you need to find out why the payment was declined, if the amount has been allocated.

Because the flight people haven't issued an authorization code they effectively haven't actually taken a payment, therefore no money, no goods.

As it was explained to me the money is 'ring-fenced' for the trader, should the wish to issue the authorization code, not by the bank, but by Visa.

Visa are effectively a middle man, but do you think that anyone is going to be able to contact them?

Usually, when a pre-authorization is made, an authorization code is given to the trader, which is what they use to make the pre-authorization to an authorization.

The challenge in Winjas' case is that if this was made over t'internet is getting someone at the merchant to understand what has happened, then access the correct systems, to get the correct information.

In my experience, the bank will refuse to help, because at any point until the money is returned the merchant can issue the authorization code and take the payment (even if the merchant has made it clear they are not going to).

Its a 'well known' issue when using debit cards for flights/hotels/hire cars that has been highlighted in travel press/articles/magazines.

I hope that Winjas is able to find a resolution, I'm just speaking from experience of many years of having to travel overseas for work and getting stung by this on many occasions and never getting the money returned any quicker than the system allowed.

SnV

[mgfboy]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

SO is it then the flight people or the bank or visa that hasn't issued the code??

I must admit , this has never happen to me, but it sounds like "visa" is at fault becuase they have made a request to ring fence the money but haven't issued the code.

[gravytrain]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

So why was the card declined in the first instance by the bank ?

[SaltnVinegar]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

SO is it then the flight people or the bank or visa that hasn't issued the code??

I must admit , this has never happen to me, but it sounds like "visa" is at fault becuase they have made a request to ring fence the money but haven't issued the code.

Well who knows

When the retailer 'pre-authorised' the card, they should have got a code which is then used to authorise the payment.

The reason why hotels do this for example is they pre-authorize the room rate, get an authorization code, but if you then empty the mini bar they will subsequently use the same authorization code to try to take a payment for the room + minibar when you check out.

Worst case scenario the money for the room rate is 'ring-fenced' by Visa and they can at least still get that payment.

Car hire companies do exactly the same thing. This is why you see horror stories of people being stung for additional charges on their cards when they get home.

I have no idea why an airline would pre-authorise for a payment unless they have some dodgy clause where they may change the amount owed, if for example, airport or fuel taxes change (which has been known!) and only they can answer that.

Its a very convoluted system, where no-one seems accountable, and when you get caught out by it very frustrating.

[winjas]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

Ok so news, if you fancy a long read.... (there is good news at end!)

6 calls to Halifax today totally 1hr47min, 6-7 different staff and departments.
5 calls to Expedia today totally 2hrs31min, 6 different staff and one "duty manager".
Totalling approx 4 and half hours on phone (well on hold).
(tallied up call times from iPhone call log!) luckily work was slack today!

(nearly all these calls included 30-40min of being in queues etc)

So started day calling halifax, they as expected said that money was allocated, cant be removed or credited unless expedia fax over a headed letter with the details and confirm and then it can be rectified within an hour, sounds good.

Call Expedia, after 20min of the guy having no idea what the problem is "no problem sir, no money taken, its all good" (india i believe it was!). he eventually put me through to some different indian city that deals with refunds etc. Eventually a lady assures me she will fax halifax right away and all will be well. She even gives me a direct line and her name to speed any problems up. also sounds good.

I wait couple of hours and call Halifax again, 30min later get told "no fax yet, sorry we cant help. Expedias problem mate".

So i call the 'direct line' number only to discover it actually just puts me in the same queuing system! 20min later another guy says he has never heard of the woman who's name i had, and her department doesn't even exist, but insists again "no worry sir, no money taken". Another 30min and i have another person promising to send that golden fax to halifax...

Again, an hour or so later i call Halifax, long and short........ 30min to again be told "no fax mate, halifax cant do anything".

By this point i swear i could do 15yrs for these people!

So call Expedia yet again, 30-40min later i get the same old chat about how everything is ok not to worry. I kick up a huge stink and insist on a manager. 20min on hold and finally i get someone claiming to be the duty manager. After 15min asking what on earth has happened to my fax the manager says blatantly "apologises, our staff must have lied to you earlier, i have no clue why thats happened. But i will fax it right now whilst you wait. So i am on hold for 5-10min and she comes back saying "i have just sent it sir, successful fax confirmed, your bank have the fax for definite now sir, apologises for my staff earlier". I go on to ask how i can this 3rd time be sure its not more lies....... "no, no i am duty manager and i have just sent it personally. your bank must help you now"..

So, again i give it about an hour and call Halifax. Another 20min of awful hold noise and transferring departments and yet again i get told "nope, no faxes from expedia sir.. i have even checked errors etc and peoples desks... nothing no fax from expedia".

Phone Expedia again, this time 20ish minutes. Long and short is no manager available, gorl assures me if someone says its been faxed then it must have been!

In the next hour or two i called Halifax and Expedia another couple of times and same story from both, bank - "nothing, we cant help".. Expedia - "we sent it, go away" (so to speak).

By this it was just gone 5pm and i was pretty much part given up and part so damn mad i genuinely considered taking some chain from my work van and padlocking myself to Halifaxs counter thinking police and publicity might work! (i kid you not i considered it for a while!).

Anyway made one last call of the day about 5.30 and after the usual 20min of queuing etc i get a young irish guy (not relevant but was by far most pleasant human being of the day!) who after i explained for the umpteen time the problem he said wait while i check the records... He came back and said "yes i can see you have called several times today sir, we still have no fax. But clearly its frustrating for you and i would like to ease your stress so just a second................... There you go sir, i have cleared it now for you. Money is back in your account". just like that, no hassle, no pleading that its not there problem. This one guy literally just said , let me fix that for you and did it?!! I was gobsmacked, and yet confused.. over 4hrs of calls, several of his workmates pleading ignorance and yet he just did it,

I then gave up with internet, walked over travel agents just before it shut and booked my flights in about 10mins. Simply, suppose the old fashioned way sometimes beats the internet eh.

So what have we learned from this?

Expedia are a bunch of twats for want of a better word! Liars, cheats and totally pointless foreign call centres. I had used there website many times before.. can assure you never ever ever again!

And well Halifax, one golden staff member out a bunch of jobs worth pricks! How on earth can 6 people insist they cant do anything at all, when another guy in same office just clicks his mouse and fixes it all, without even any fuss?! Is it just luck of who answers your call? I have no idea, still baffled frankly.

So i got my money back, got flights booked so all good there, but oh my god, absolute hell of day. Dont remember another day like it, just ridiculous and endless swearing at computerised queuing systems!

I am planning on a stern letter to both Halifax and to Expedia! total farce bordering on criminal from them both!

Thoughts?

[vossy]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

I think you have every right to feel as wound up as you do, the system is all wrong, you pay - they take your money and you get your flights, not you pay and some twat thinks about it for a while. You could complain but would it do any good in this case? Badly trained staff at Halifax is nothing new - I have a mortgage with them!!
I think you should see how you feel tomorrow after a good nights sleep, you now have your flights booked and everything back on track so ......
Good luck anyway

[Pixie]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

Glad you got the money returned and the flights sorted in the end

[SXGuy]

Re: Not debt, but advice pre-authorisations ?

typical bank staff not knowing what they can and cant do i guess! i see it all the time.

I use pretty much every bank or building society for work except halifax and lloyds.

Im always coming across staff who have no or little clue about anything and it winds me up on a weekly basis.

Ive even had a cashier tell me im 40 quid over what i stated when asked to re count apologises. So if they cant even count money id doubtfull of anything else they can do either.