me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

[keeperlit]

Hi guys, looking for some help here of a fairly immediate nature... This has been posted on a couple of other forums too but this was recommended to me. Bit of a back story here regarding solicitor but i'll not get into it as it is irrelevant at this point

I'm currently resident in Scotland

In December of 2014 i received a summons to attend an ordinary cause (I live in Scotland). This was issued by Shoosmiths on behalf of arrow global regarding a sum of £7500

Last payment I made to the account was in late 2010
MBNA put it into default in April 2011
It was then sold to Arrow Global - not sure of the date

Having tried unsuccessfully to come to an arrangement with MBNA regarding the debt I refused to speak to any DCAs and I still have
When I received the summons I sent a CCA request to Shoosmiths requesting the original agreement. It arrived some 11 weeks later ( I just received a copy of this agreement this morning from my solicitor) and essentially it seems to be a copy of the application form that was filled out in an airport.

Problem is I am due in court on Tuesday 10/03/16 to defend this case

My question is...this surely can't be acceptable as an agreement can it..?

The agreement they have forwarded to me is only two pages long and with the exception of my personal details the vast majority of it is illegible. Also the front page with the signature on it has no details stating terms and conditions, APR, Credit limit that type of thing. Also I was under the impression that an agreement should contain details on how to end it / cancel it or as it was signed in an airport it should mention a cool off period...

I'm not even sure if that second page is a true copy of the original agreement. It just seems to be stuck on there

Anybody any thoughts on this - it seems that shoosmiths want some sort of debate on the matter but as I see it this agreement they have provided me (as it stands) is next to useless.

all opinions are welcome

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6a...ew?usp=sharing

Link to agreement provided, I have removed personal details

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Also, and apologies for the length of these posts but I have also worked on some defence arguments...I'd appreciate it if anyone with a knowledge in these matters could cast an eye over it and let me know if I've missed anything or over stepped the mark somewhere.
***********************
• The Pursuers have produced a document which appears to be the contract. The contract is said to be a Credit Agreement in terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The contract is illegible. The contract does not meet the requirements for the Consumer Credit Act 1974. There is no cooling off period. There is no vouching or specification for the sum claimed. In addition there is no connection between the two pages of the produced contract and the signed copy does not contain the prescribed terms and conditions. In the absence of vouching or specification for the sum claimed the action is irrelevant.
• The Defender is entitled to fair notice of the quantification of the Pursuers claim. In the absence of fair notice the defender does not know the nature of the debt claimed against him. The action should accordingly be dismissed.
• The action is irrelevant. The Pursuers failed to specify how and in what way they acquired a right of payment of any sums due by the Defender. It is not known and not admitted that any Assignation was intimated through the Defender by way of a written notice. The Pursuers were called upon to lodge a copy of the written notice and confirmation of its intimation on the Defenders. There future to do so will be founded upon.
• The agreement is not a credit agreement in terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In terms thereof the Defender would have had a right to cancel. The provisions of the right to cancel are not incorporated in the document. To the knowledge of the defender these were not intimated to him by post.
• Esto the contract is a Consumer Credit Act agreement in terms of the 1974 act and Esto the Pursuers case is relevant and specific, in any event, the action is time barred.
inappropriate execution of agreement - Section 61(a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states: "A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless it: "...is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor..." The action should accordingly be dismissed.
• In accordance with section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. For a credit agreement to be enforceable it must comply with the formalities in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and contain all the prescribed terms
1) Amount of credit
There must be a term on the agreement which states the amount of credit which has been issued
2) Credit Limit
The agreement must include a credit limit
3) Repayments
The agreement must contain information on how the debtor is to make repayments. This could be in the form of any of the following points;
a. Amount of repayments to be made
b. Date the repayments are to be made
c. Timing of payments
d. Frequency of payments
e. Total number of repayments (For instance, when a loan is required)
f. The power of the creditor to vary any of the above mentioned
f. The manner in which any of the above is to be determined.
4) Rate of interest
There must be a term referring to the rate of interest to be applied to the credit agreement

With respect to this Credit Card Agreement sections 2, 3 & 4 should be included as a minimum. It is the defendants case that this credit agreement is not enforceable on the grounds that all of the prescribed terms within the meaning of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 were not contained in the document signed by the defendant. It is submitted by the defendant that if all of the prescribed terms are not contained in the agreement itself, then that is fatal to the enforceability of the agreement, and it would not be sufficient if, for example prescribed terms were sent a few weeks later with the credit card
In the absence of these prescribed terms the action is irrelevant and the action should accordingly be dismissed.
• Despite ticking the box marked no in the PPI section, this has been unfairly imposed on my account without my permission. (ruling issued by Judge Jacqueline Smart at South Shields County Court in the case of Lynne Thorius against MBNA) I argue that because of this, this agreement is unfair and unenforceable and the action should accordingly be dismissed.

The defendant has previously requested this information regarding the agreement from MBNA but for whatever reason, it was not forthcoming

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Thank you to anyone who read this lot and for any help you can provide

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Hello keeperlit and to AAD.

You seem to be going along the right lines but with a hearing on Tuesday it's going to be difficult.

If you only got the evidence today (I presume you mean yesterday due to no post on Sundays) can you not get the hearing adjourned to allow you to seek legal advice? I'm not familiar with the Scottish court system but 48 hours before the hearing for the Pursuer to disclose evidence cannot be reasonable.

I've flagged this up for attention so let's see what we can come up with in the meantime. We have plenty of experience with MBNA credit cards.

Plan B x

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Hi, thanks for replying. The evidence was actually received by my solicitor a couple of weeks ago but I was only made aware of it on Friday. Not something I really want to get into at the moment as its a whole other story. For the time being I will now be representing myself. I appreciate that this is 11th hour I'm just trying to make the best of this situation.

Thanks tho

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Do you remember why you were at Belfast Airport in March 2001? Unless you are a plane spotter I presume you were catching a flight somewhere so may not have had the time or the opportunity to read any Ts & Cs which should have been with that agreement/application form.

Was that document in post #2 everything you were sent by Shoosmiths or were there some separate Ts & Cs? I'm not seeing the prescribed terms anywhere.

[oscar]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

The documents are very difficult to read, however I have been able to pick some pieces out.

The application form clearly gives the date February 2001. (Top left) However, the T&Cs appear to be from March 2000 - date is in bottom right corner 03/00.

There doesn't have to be a specific credit limit. Term 1 says something like "we will let you know what your credit limit is" - that is sufficient. Below that are the repayment terms. I expect the interest rates in the table are "example" rates, rather than the actual rates applied to your account.

I expect those T&Cs are also incomplete, but its too difficult to tell on the scans

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

According to my solicitor, that was all that was sent. I remember exactly why I was at the airport that day, I also remember why I filled in that form and what happened during and after. I was 21 yrs old and on my way to a job interview. A cute girl comes over and starts flirting with me asks me to fill in this application form whilstbwe were chatting. She never showed me the back of it and never even provided me with a copy of it afterwards. This is my first time seeing it in 15 years. We never spoke about any TCs just about going out drinking and my job interview. I remember not even wanting to fill it in and deliberately left out some information and gave them an incorrect tel number. I couldn't believe it when a card arrived in the post!

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

Keeper can you email me a copy of that "credit agreement" without anything blanked out. It's quite safe because we have a secure dedicated email system. Use PlanB@all-about-debt.co.uk with a copy to Never-In-Doubt using webmaster@all-about-debt.co.uk

Email any other documents the Pursuer is intending to reply on such as the Default Notice. These were often defective with MBNA.

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

I remember exactly why I was at the airport that day, I also remember why I filled in that form and what happened during and after. I was 21 yrs old and on my way to a job interview. A cute girl comes over and starts flirting with me asks me to fill in this application form whilstbwe were chatting. She never showed me the back of it and never even provided me with a copy of it afterwards. This is my first time seeing it in 15 years. We never spoke about any TCs just about going out drinking and my job interview. I remember not even wanting to fill it in and deliberately left out some information and gave them an incorrect tel number. I couldn't believe it when a card arrived in the post!

That would make a great Witness Statement. Have you had to provide one of those (sorry I don't know the Scottish legal procedure as I keep saying)?

Either way you must make that statement at the hearing because that says it all.

[oscar]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

According to my solicitor, that was all that was sent. I remember exactly why I was at the airport that day, I also remember why I filled in that form and what happened during and after. I was 21 yrs old and on my way to a job interview. A cute girl comes over and starts flirting with me asks me to fill in this application form whilstbwe were chatting. She never showed me the back of it and never even provided me with a copy of it afterwards. This is my first time seeing it in 15 years. We never spoke about any TCs just about going out drinking and my job interview. I remember not even wanting to fill it in and deliberately left out some information and gave them an incorrect tel number. I couldn't believe it when a card arrived in the post!

Standard practice with those forms. People knew you would be in a rush and not really giving it your full attention.

I can quite believe the card came - they (MBNA) used to throw them about like confetti at a wedding.

[keeperlit]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

I haven't had to give a witness statement yet...I'm not sure about any legal system tho, let alone the Scottish one. All I have done so far is submit a defence and submit my arguments to their defence. Tuesday will be a complete unknown to me...I have no idea what will happen.

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

According to my solicitor, that was all that was sent

I can tell you have lost confidence in your solicitor but can you be sure that's all he was sent by Shoosmiths? Maybe a call to his office in the morning to double-check?

If there's no Default Notice then there should be no judgement against you.

At the moment you seem to be defending on non-compliance with s.78 (producing the credit agreement etc) and s.61 (prescribed terms and so on). But you may be able to add other legal arguments such as a 'bad' Default Notice or even no DN.

This is a copy of the judgement in my Santander v Mayhew case (Mayhew = Plan B) where you will see all the legal arguments I raised and won. This may help you think of more things you can add to yours if appropriate:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/Misc/2012/14.html

I'm sure we can arm you with some case law to back up your arguments. That's what usually does the trick.

[PlanB]

Re: me vs arrow global/shoosmiths

All I have done so far is submit a defence and submit my arguments to their defence. .

Email me your Defence. I assume you mean that Shoosmiths filed a Reply to your Defence so email me that too.

Oooh, I've just got an email from you saying you're hesitant to email documents which is fine. No problem.

Plan B x