Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Resuming the tale - CapOne sent the written offer, as attached below. SXGuy (and others) may be interested to see that they separated the claim into 2 parts. The first part covers premiums paid before 14/01/05, and they have now refunded these, along with 8% interest - but there is no mention of any associated account interest whatsoever. The second part covers the premiums already refunded under the 'Scheme' - and again - there is no mention of any associated account interest whatsoever.

So, they have simply refunded what CPP Ltd wasn't refunding under the scheme - and have hung on to the associated account interest, without mentioning it at all. This has been the general 'flavour' of the whole scam so far. CPP refunded approx. £120, but I estimate that approx. £460 should have been refunded - so, of the amount that I reckon should have been refunded, most claimants are being offered about a quarter of that !!!

In this case, we managed to get a further £95 by claiming directly from CapOne - but I reckon CapOne are still hanging back by approx. £240 - and that is what we are now pursuing them for. That £240 is the account interest that they earned on the mis-sold CPP. The problem they might have with this is that it could amount to big bucks if this gets out - and I guess they will try and wriggle out by blaming CPP for the mis-selling - but I don't think the selling process was handled by CPP Ltd. most of the time. The lenders did the mis-selling by a number of devious methods, I reckon.

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

So only people who have had this CPP ins have been sent a claim form ?

I'm pretty sure I had it at one point, though not for long and I haven't had a form in the post

Hi LF - if your CPP was provided at any time after 13/01/05 by the insurer known as 'CPP Limited,' then you should have been sent preliminary information about the 'Scheme of Arrangement,' and eventually a claim form (as attached in post #3 above). However, if it was provided by any other insurer, then I believe you would need to reclaim it initially from the lender who collected the premiums, as the 'Scheme' only covered CPP that was actually covered by 'CPP Limited.'

From the link provided by AC earlier, it appears that the CPP insurers 'Sentinel' may eventually send out details of the proposed 'Scheme' - but I would advise peeps not to wait until then, and try and find out ASAP if they ever had CPP. If so, then they would need to know what premiums they paid, and when they paid them - along with who the CPP insurer was, and who collected the premiums. If you don't have these details, then it may be worth writing to CPP Limited, asking them why you weren't sent a claim form, as you did have CPP insurance. If you had only CPP from them prior to 14/01/05, then they may not have sent you any claim form or other details - but it would be worth asking them, I reckon.

Also maybe worth writing to other CPP providers such as Sentinel, etc. I don't think there were very many of them. If you have your statements, then look for any insurance premiums being charged - usually on an annual basis, and usually a regular amount (around £20 - 30.) CPP premiums were often given different names - so don't just look for 'CPP.' I believe some policies covered identity theft, and may have cost more. My pal Di30 here has a thread about reclaiming CPP so there may be some useful info here:-

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...reclaiming-CCP

Also - here are the CPP threads I have come across so far in AAD:-

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...ent-Protection

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...g-CPP-pre-2005

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s...-CPP-Insurance

http://forums.all-about-debt.co.uk/s....php?11021-CPP

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

We then sent the attached initial claim letter to CapOne, and I would suggest other claimants send a similar letter to their lenders.

CapOne 01.doc

They messed around with stalling tactics at first, asking for further info - probably hoping that CPP hadn't given us all the info we needed. Then eventually the claimant received a phone call from Cap One offering approx. £95. When asked if this included the associated account interest charged on the premiums, CapOne said that it did. The claimant asked for the offer to be sent in writing, with details of the calculation. By this time, I had already calculated that the amount we expected from CapOne should be around £350 - so we were not happy with the offer, and we awaited the arrival of the written offer.

[lookingforward]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

So only people who have had this CPP ins have been sent a claim form ?

I'm pretty sure I had it at one point, though not for long and I haven't had a form in the post

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

Not forgetting Sentinel Card Protection, of course!
http://www.ftadviser.com/2015/01/27/...L/article.html

Indeed so, AC. I hadn't realised that they had now organised another (presumably similar) 'Scheme' with Sentinel - thanks for the link.

The way it was all handled seemed a little dodgy to me anyway. It was basically them saying, do you think you should be refunded. If so fill this out and send it back, if you don't you wont be considered. Almost like a take it or leave it approach. No explanation of how the refund was calculated, no way as far as I remember of disputing the amount and certainly no mention of the impact it would have had to any credit card charges.

It was dodgy, wasn't it, SXGuy - and I believe it was deliberately tailored to be difficult to understand, so that the majority of CPP victims probably didn't return their claim forms. I reckon CPP got off lightly, and the lenders got away with it completely. Presumably, the same will also happen with Sentinel.

What I found worked for us was to send in the enquiry letter attached to post #3 above. CPP then responded (as attached below) with:-
1. An explanation of their calculation;
2. A list of all premiums paid - including those paid before 2005;
3. Confirmation of which lender collected the premiums.

This enabled us to contact the lender with all the data we needed to reclaim the earlier premiums, and the associated account interest on those premiums, and avoided the need to send a DSAR. It also meant that the lender was unable to pretend that they didn't have the data themselves.

[SXGuy]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

The way it was all handled seemed a little dodgy to me anyway. It was basically them saying, do you think you should be refunded. If so fill this out and send it back, if you don't you wont be considered. Almost like a take it or leave it approach. No explanation of how the refund was calculated, no way as far as I remember of disputing the amount and certainly no mention of the impact it would have had to any credit card charges.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

[ATTACH]16578[/ATTACH][ATTACH]16582[/ATTACH]For those unfamiliar with the FCA/CPP Ltd. 'Scheme of Arrangement,' I attach below the CPP claim form. These were supposedly sent out to all CPP victims, and required them to fill them in and return them to CPP, who would then process their refund claim. Anyone who didn't do this probably didn't get their refund, and would now need to give a good reason why they didn't return their form if they wanted to claim, as the deadline for 'easy' claims (30/08/14) has now passed. Personally, I believe the form was intimidating for many claimants, and asked for unnecessary information - in particular, section B - to which my recommended response is shown. I would imagine the majority of CPP claimants wouldn't have known what to put there, and didn't return their forms for that reason, but I believe that could be a good enough reason to allow post-deadline claims. So, we sent in the claim form, and in due course CPP calculated the premiums due under the 'Scheme' - and they eventually sent a cheque for just over £90.
[ATTACH]16578[/ATTACH]

The second letter attached here was then sent to CPP - and I would suggest that ALL CPP victims consider sending a similar letter (tailored to their own circumstances, of course) - because THIS move is the whole point of this thread. BTW - if the attachment doesn't open, please let me know (post or PM) - as it is actually a .RTF file, and not a .DOC file - as I can't attach .RTF files (...Niddy !!!)
[ATTACH]16580[/ATTACH]

Not forgetting Sentinel Card Protection, of course!
http://www.ftadviser.com/2015/01/27/...L/article.html

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

For those unfamiliar with the FCA/CPP Ltd. 'Scheme of Arrangement,' I attach below the CPP claim form. These were supposedly sent out to all CPP victims, and required them to fill them in and return them to CPP, who would then process their refund claim. Anyone who didn't do this probably didn't get their refund, and would now need to give a good reason why they didn't return their form if they wanted to claim, as the deadline for 'easy' claims (30/08/14) has now passed. Personally, I believe the form was intimidating for many claimants, and asked for unnecessary information - in particular, section B - to which my recommended response is shown. I would imagine the majority of CPP claimants wouldn't have known what to put there, and didn't return their forms for that reason, but I believe that could be a good enough reason to allow post-deadline claims. So, we sent in the claim form, and in due course CPP calculated the premiums due under the 'Scheme' - and they eventually sent a cheque for just over £90.

The second letter attached here was then sent to CPP - and I would suggest that ALL CPP victims consider sending a similar letter (tailored to their own circumstances, of course) - because THIS move is the whole point of this thread. BTW - if the attachment doesn't open, please let me know (post or PM) - as it is actually a .RTF file, and not a .DOC file - as I can't attach .RTF files (...Niddy !!!)

[Bill-K]

Re: Card Protection Policies (CPP) - We're STILL Being Scammed !!!

I'll attempt to flesh things out - which might help those who would like to consider reclaiming further CPP & interest. As I have mentioned, we have been offered a further £95 from the card supplier Capital One, in addition to the £120 refund from CPP Ltd., so even that is worth the effort. A further point I would make is that the number of CPP claimants from CPP Ltd. will have been huge - and although CPP Ltd. appear to have been refunding their premiums - the credit card suppliers made a helluva lot of compounded account interest on those premiums, and I believe that just about every single CPP claim will have effectively been underpaid and/or avoided by the lenders - because of the failure by anybody (CPP Ltd., the FCA, FOS and the lenders themselves) to alert victims of the CPP scam to this. OK - it is reasonable to expect CPP Ltd. and the lenders to keep shtum about it - but the FCA & FOS should have at least been a bit more help to us all, IMHO.

For those who are unfamiliar with the CPP scam, the FSA (now FCA) eventually declared that it considered that all CPP policies were mis-sold because they were totally unnecessary, and their benefits were already provided by the lenders and other insurance schemes. A 'Scheme of Arrangement' was set up between the biggest CPP seller, CPP Ltd., whereby CPP Ltd. would go through their own records and refund all premiums (plus 8% simple interest) paid on or after 14/01/05 - which is when the FSA started to 'regulate' CPP selling. There was also a deadline imposed, after which any further CPP claims under the 'Scheme' would probably be refused - and that deadline has now passed. However, any claim for pre-2005 CPP premiums, and also for CPP-associated account interest is not covered by the 'Scheme.' Additionally, the FOS have informed me that CPP claims are not covered by the PPI 'rules' in the FCA's PS10/12 PPI Redress Handbook. Nice.

So - if you paid CPP premiums after 01/01/05, and have not sent in your claim form - then you may have lost the chance of a refund of those premiums (although it may still be worth giving it a go, because the information provided was not easy to understand - and I believe it was deliberately intimidating.) BUT - I believe that in many or most cases, the major part of the reclaimable money has not been refunded - because it was retained by the lenders as the interest they charged. In addition to the pre-2005 premiums, this interest is not covered by the 'Scheme' - so it is still reclaimable - in theory. And for those who did get their post-2004 premiums back, then it is also reclaimable. Sorry to repeat myself, but sometimes it's necessary.

[Bill-K]

I have seen several other CPP reclaim threads here, but am starting my own, as it may be of interest to those who have received refunds from CPP Ltd. - who were ordered by the FCA to repay the premiums they received. Other CPP firms (eg., Sentinel, etc) may also be involved. CPP was recognised as a universal scam, because the FCA declared that it was totally unnecessary - but the 'Scheme of Arrangement' set up by the FCA & CPP Ltd (via Ernst & Young LLP) may have effectively misled the victims of this scam into believing that the "That's 'andy, 'arry !" arrival of these refunds - without claimants having to fight tooth & nail for them - settled the matter nicely. But it did not - I beg to report.

The general nature of CPP involved an annual premium of around £30 being charged to one's credit card account, to cover (ostensibly) loss/fraud/ID theft etc. - and this was often 'sneaked in' without consent or knowledge of the claimant. So for example, once a year, this 'CPP' item appeared on the statement, and £30 was charged - and over 10 years, this would have amounted to £300 in CPP premiums that were charged to the account, and then these premiums were sent to CPP Ltd., who 'administered' the insurance scam. It is this £300 that CPP is now having to refund - and bless their cotton sox - they seem to have made an effort, in that they have also been adding 8% simple interest to these amounts. Premiums paid before 14/01/05 are also outside of this scheme, because the FSA 'regulation' didn't cover CPP before this.

The nature of the continuing scam is that the FCA failed to address the issue of the credit card account interest that was charged on a monthly basis to the increasing portion of account balance that was made up of mis-sold CPP premiums over the years. This aspect was completely ignored by them in the 'Scheme of Arrangement,' and has yet to be addressed I believe. So what has happened is that poor old CPP has had to refund the premiums, but the credit card providers have kept the interest they charged on them. The convention has been generally accepted that lenders have to refund the apportioned account interest charged on mis-sold PPI and unlawfully-charged penalties - and I believe the same principle must apply to CPP. If you're still following the story so far, then you may be thinking that this 'extra interest' is not worth the effort of reclaiming - but it is this account interest where the big scam was - and is - being operated.

Despite me contacting them about the total omission of this account interest, the Scheme went ahead, and I was ignored. The FOS however did confirm that any claims for this account interest were not covered by the normal PPI 'rules' (as in PS10/12) - and also that any claims would be dealt with by the FOS on their own merits, with the necessary rule that such claims should be made to the lenders in the first instance. So - unless someone else out there has done so already - the FOS are apparently suggesting that a 'precedent' needs to be established with a 'test case.' As it happens, I have 2 family members who have received their premium refunds from CPP, and I am assisting with those - my 'test cases' !!!

What I have got so far is that CPP were kind enough to send details of all premiums they received, when I asked for further details - so this saved all the hassle of sending DSAR's. This included the hitherto unrefunded premiums paid prior to 14/01/05. Whilst there was a deadline for CPP claims, I don't think this applies to the request for this additional info - so I suggest that claimants send one ASAP. We were then able to claim directly from the card provider, as per the FOS suggestion. This claim was for:-
1. all the premiums detailed in CPP's response (ie., including those paid before 14/01/05), plus;
2. the apportioned account interest charged on these premiums over the life of the account, plus;
3. 8% simple interest on all of the above, less;
4. what CPP had already refunded.

We have received a response from one of these claims, and I'll summarise it here:-
The original offer from CPP was for £120.
We wrote to the lender to request repayment of earlier premiums, plus account interest, plus 8% simple interest.
They offered a further £95.
We then sent them a well-snotty letter with our calculation showing that they owed a further £350 - and not just £95.
They acknowledged, and are now taking their traditional 8 weeks to respond.

This was a pretty small amount to start with - but if you can imagine someone paying £30 p.a. since 1975, we have £1200 in premiums - most of which is not being refunded. The original £120 offered in the above example should (in my estimation) be around 4 times that amount. With £1200 in premiums going back to 1975, this should easily have amounted to £6,000 at the very least. That's the continuing scam, I reckon.