Default 28 days ?

[cardiac arrest]

I understand that a remedy for an arrears default must allow 14 days plus postage time.

However, if the arrears are not paid, my DN says the agreement will be terminated and the credit card account closed...the full balance must then be paid immediately...if you do not do this we may take legal proceedings etc etc. Then it also says, if the full amount hasn't been paid by 28 days from the date of the letter we will pass the default details to a CRA.

I am assuming at this point the Bank can assign/sell the account ?

My question is though, while the 14 days must allow for postage time, does the 28 days also have to allow for postage time too ?

[kuma]

Re: Default 28 days ?

i doubt it. If it's not paid in time they will report and mark your CR

kuma

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Default 28 days ?

That's right - 14 day plus postal delivery time is the statutory requirement so anything longer than that doesn't have to have time for postage added on.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Default 28 days ?

That's right - 14 day plus postal delivery time is the statutory requirement so anything longer than that doesn't have to have time for postage added on.

So, as an example...

assume 1st class (didn't keep envelope)..

posted Thursday...assumed delivery date ...Monday ?

[kuma]

Re: Default 28 days ?

sounds right to me for first class, however you should get it on Saturday but they don't count.

kuma

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

So, as an example...

assume 1st class (didn't keep envelope)..

posted Thursday...assumed delivery date ...Monday ?

Postage is classed as 3 days from date of letter, usually. So assuming you post a letter on the 1st, it'd be classed as served on 4th and you would then add 14 days to that (so you get 17 days) for a default notice - these days INCLUDE weekends so if it was issued Monday 1st the remedy date would actually be Thursday 18th.

Anything after that would be clear days, so if they then wrote giving 28 days, you literally add 28 days on top from the date of their letter to complete cleared payment - ie if you sent a cheque on day 27, they could still proceed with any threats as it'd not be clear on day 28.

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Postage is classed as 3 days from date of letter, usually. So assuming you post a letter on the 1st, it'd be classed as served on 4th and you would then add 14 days to that (so you get 17 days) for a default notice - these days INCLUDE weekends so if it was issued Monday 1st the remedy date would actually be Thursday 18th.

Anything after that would be clear days, so if they then wrote giving 28 days, you literally add 28 days on top from the date of their letter to complete cleared payment - ie if you sent a cheque on day 27, they could still proceed with any threats as it'd not be clear on day 28.

Ok. thanks...so DN dated Thursday 15th....and given until 'before' the 29th ?...and then also given 28 days from 'the date of this letter'..is when ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Ok. thanks...so DN dated Thursday 15th....and given until 'before' the 29th ?...and then also given 28 days from 'the date of this letter'..is when ?

which year are we in?

Talking general, if a DN was dated/posted on 15th, then it'd get +3 days service plus 14 days so clearly it'd be in defect if the total time given on your example was only 14 days in total.

The extra 28 days from date of letter would not matter, you'd have HAD to remedy the breach within the 14 days given at the start or they can default you at any point afterwards without having to reissue a DN (unless you totally remedied the previous default state and paid all arrears).

If they write after 14 days and give you 14 days to pay money in, and say you don't - then they will go back and issue the DN in line with the failure of the original breach.

* why don't you just send me the DN

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

** To clarify, service is 2 days but I classify it as 3 days if using the date on letter. If you know categorically the date someone posted a letter (proof of postage etc) then you would have 2 clear days from date of postage, so if posted on a Friday then you'd count Sat & Mon as the two 'service' days (so day 1 of remedy period would be the Tuesday). If posted on Monday, Tue & Wed would be service days (so day 1 of remedy period would be the Thursday).

Clearer...?

[Riz]

Re: Default 28 days ?

and then also given 28 days from 'the date of this letter'..is when ?

As it says.

The 28 days is not set down in law, and is just guidance from the ICO. Hence it is unlikely to take into account the normal rules regarding postal service of documents etc. And quite honestly I don't think the ICO would care. If they file the default between 28 and 28+2 days, then your recourse would be to complain to the ICO/FOS who I suspect would be unlikely to uphold that complaint.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

As it says.

The 28 days is not set down in law, and is just guidance from the ICO. Hence it is unlikely to take into account the normal rules regarding postal service of documents etc. And quite honestly I don't think the ICO would care. If they file the default between 28 and 28+2 days, then your recourse would be to complain to the ICO/FOS who I suspect would be unlikely to uphold that complaint.

Agreed

Plus technically talking the registration of a DN with a CRA is a totally different ball-game to a formally defaulted account in line with s.87/88 CCA.

I presume Cardiac is aware of this...?

If it's registering a default with the CRA's then they can do that one week after you miss a payment if they wanted to, without ever issuing a formal default notice.

[The Tech Clerk]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Any help?

[cardiac arrest]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Agreed

Plus technically talking the registration of a DN with a CRA is a totally different ball-game to a formally defaulted account in line with s.87/88 CCA.

I presume Cardiac is aware of this...?

If it's registering a default with the CRA's then they can do that one week after you miss a payment if they wanted to, without ever issuing a formal default notice.

Hi, thank you...yes I understand the CRA is different to a recorded default notice for the agreement. I just wondered why they give you 14 days (or so) to pay the arrears and then if you don't do that (ie you've no flipping money) , how they think you will feel intimidated by the additional threat of pay the full amount or we'll mark your CRA file ?...so they've complied with guidelines I guess..

What's the best way to send it to you Niddy, just email an attachment ?

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Any help?

In text version:

1. Under the Interpretation Act 1978 Section 7, it states:

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

2. Practice Direction
Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail.

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

1). Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
2). To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;
(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

3). Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.
4). This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

8th March 1985
J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Default 28 days ?

Hi, thank you...yes I understand the CRA is different to a recorded default notice for the agreement. I just wondered why they give you 14 days (or so) to pay the arrears and then if you don't do that (ie you've no flipping money) , how they think you will feel intimidated by the additional threat of pay the full amount or we'll mark your CRA file ?...so they've complied with guidelines I guess..

What's the best way to send it to you Niddy, just email an attachment ?

There's no need mate - it's faulty so they will struggle to enforce as stating before 29th if it is dated the 15th is a clear breach as that is literally 14 days - so it's ineffective/bad!