Help with Natwest Default Notice

[holt2000]

I'm looking for some help please and I'd be really grateful for anything anyone can offer.

Both myself and my partner have always been careful with money. When trying to apply for credit recently, my partner was refused and later discovered she has a Default on her credit file from Natwest.

This relates to an overdraft on a current account she had with an ex husband. He ran up gambling debts unbeknown to my partner. At around the same time as the trouble started with Natwest, my partner was diagnosed with cancer and underwent several rounds of major brain surgery. She also lost her house in the process. She made arrangements with the mortgage lender, Nationwide, and paid off small amounts until the house was sold - just before being re-possessed.

My partner was told by her ex husband that he had taken a CCJ for this overdraft debt and everything was sorted. My partner has never heard anything directly from Natwest herself about this debt since the divorce settlement some years ago.

The discovery of the default has come as a huge shock. The whole period of the financial difficulty and surgery was very difficult for my partner and her 2 children. Her ex husband is a useless plank, he watched his children almost thrown out onto the street and did nothing. My partner coped amazingly well considering and doesn't want to stir up the past.

The default is obviously having a negative effect on her credit file. I have spoken to Natwest Debt Recovery Team on 0845 3015139 and done as much as I can with them. Obviously, they can't speak to me but will speak to my partner if she is willing.

I'm going to try to persuade her to ring but I'm wondering if this will open a can of worms.

My partner's credit file from Equifax shows the current account default date as 31/10/2009 and the last date updated 19/12/2010. The current balance shows as £5004 and the default/delinquent balance is £4409.

Is it likely her ex-husband actually took a CCJ? Why is this still on her file. How long will it stay on her file? Why is it that nothing has happened since 2010 with this entry on my partners file?

It really upsets me because my partner can handle debt responsibly and always makes payments on time. She is stuck with this because of her ex husband and I know it depresses her.

Please, what does it all mean and what can we do?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read and hopefully help.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi Holt2000,
Welcome to AAD

I'm sorry to hear about your partner's difficulties, sounds as if she's been through a really rough time.
I'd be very very wary of pursuing this unless you know for sure that her ex has paid it off. As it's showing a balance that looks doubtful.

I'm worried that your partner would end up being chased for this if he hasn't, as joint accounts are by their nature "jointly and severally liable".
Apart from which, even if it has been paid off by her ex, if it's a true record of how the account was run then they won't remove it. It will stay for 6 years from the date it was placed whatever she does I'm afraid, as far as I'm aware.

I would definitely keep off the phone, any dealings regarding debts should always be kept in writing for your own protection, to keep a paper trail of what's been said.
Did you inform them of your partner's new address? If you did and they start hassling her as a result give us a shout as we could try appealing for a write off based on your partner's serious health issues at the time.

So sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, others may have different views.
Elsa x

[mgfboy]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Can you say what you mean by he took a ccj and why you think it should have cleared the debt?

Also did the bank know that they where divorced ???

[holt2000]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi Mgfboy, thanks for posting.

To be very honest, my partner and I are both nieve & inexperienced when it comes to negative credit reports and, until now, have been extremely lucky to be able to have healthy reports.

When my partner got her divorce and the marital home was sold (just before being re-possessed), she walked away with a little bit of cash. Her ex-husband told her she should keep the cash as "they" would have it straight off him.

He also explained that the joint account debt had been "sorted" and that he had "taken a CCJ" so the debt didn't reflect on her anymore.

As far as she was led to believe, it was wiped out by his CCJ. To be honest, I don't even know if he has a CCJ but I do know that he has legally declared himself bankrupt recently.

I've done some research and now know that both my partner and her ex are "each responsible for 100 percent of the debt in its entirety". I now understand that no matter what he had done, she is still liable for 100% of the debt.

The annoying thing is she would have paid off the debt with the leftover from the sale of the house if she had appreciated that she was responsible for it all too - regardless of what her ex had said. I understand though that the lender will not give the "I didn't know" excuse the light of day.

Unfortunately, my partner has contacted the recovery department at Natwest today. She spoke to an extremely arrogant man who kept calling her "love" and was very cold. She said his manner was like, "I hear things like this 100 a times a day, what's new".

He explained that Natwest had been writing to her at the house which was sold befire being repossessed 2.5 years ago. Interestingly, he said that the debt had either been written off or was in the process of being written off.

I can't understand why they didn't chase my partner. She remembers getting 6 or 7 calls a day in the beginning from Natwest. I'm not sure if they perhaps assessed her and found that as she wasn't working and was ill with cancer, losing her house, job, had 2 kids, etc. they left her alone knowing there was little chance of recovering any money from her and went after her ex.

I'm told that some banks have a "sensitive marker" for things like disclosure of cancer, etc.

Once her ex declared himself bankrupt, I'm guessing they might have started the write off.

The person at Natwest who my partner spoke to today suddenly changed his tone during the call and said, "It looks like you have been treated unfairly and I'm going to pass the matter on to our complaints department".

I'm hoping and praying that complaints department does not mean the recovery department. It could be that he didn't know how to handle the call and passing to complaints was a way of getting her off the phone.

It has been explained to me that there is no chance really of getting the Defaulted marker off the credit file as it truth, legally speaking, she was jointly responsible and the account wasn't handled/conducted as per the banks terms and conditions by my partner and her ex.

Natwest didn't ask for my partner's address but they did take her home telephone number for the complaints procedure.

It all seems a bit strange to me and will cause a few sleepless nights until we hear from the bank.

The bank followed protocol when my partner explained she and her ex are divorced (I don't know if they knew this already but I guess not). Even though it's a joint account, they won't discuss the ex with my partner. Strange that they are happy enough though to blight her credit file but then not speak to her about why!

Thanks too for your advice Elsa. I wish I'd managed to speak to my partner after reading what you had said before she spoke to Natwest.

I'm guessing that the best we can hope for is a vague letter from Natwest telling us to shut up and go away for our own good and at worst, they may pursue my partner for the £5k debt.

It took me 18 months to get my partner to get her credit report, We knew something was wrong but didn't appreciate how bad it was and what looking into it could do.

We also filed disassociation requests with the three credit reference agencies today. Hopefully, that will be allowed.

The other thing we did, which I regret now, is asked Natwest for a Subject Access Request - the £10 tell me everything you know about me report. After reading some other forums we thought this would be a good idea as my partner can't even recall the account number let alone what was done during the time Natwest were chasing her for payment.

What an absolute nightmare this could turn into.

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi Holt,
It is as I feared then. However all may not be lost...if they've passed it to the complaints department it means your partner has cause for complaint against them, not vice versa.
Damage limitation time, please please don't let her speak on the phone again. Make them put it in writing, then let us know the contents of the letter so we can help her deal with it.
By now after hearing his obnoxious attitude when she did finally speak to him you'll know why I advised against that. They will also lie and bully on the phone, saying things they wouldn't be allowed to put in writing.
Don't worry, she's not the first and certainly not the last to experience this. We see it many times on here. There's no shame in getting into financial difficulties. Most people nowadays do, if they're honest.

Life throws things at us..be it redundancy, illness, bereavement and our best laid plans go out of the window.
There's no need to feel guilty, it happens all the time and you won't find anyone judging on here, just help and support, so please let us help your partner if we can

[mgfboy]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

I hate to say this but I think your partners husband was having her on, you can't just take a CCJ. The courts have to issue one when a lender has taken you to court, so as the debt was a joint one you would have both got the CCJ at the same time.

I suppose though, her ex could have talked the bank to to moving the debt in to his name only, but I dont think it would have happen.

I agree with UE though , dont talk to them, see what they send you and I'm sure people will be able to help

[holt2000]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Thanks very much for your help guys. I had a sleepless night last night worrying about what might happen. The last things she needs is stress and I might have opened a can of worms by getting her to look into this. Let sleeping dogs lie and all that. I sort of knew something wasn't right because why would they CCJ him and let her off. The shock of seeing it in black and white cause us to react in an unwise way. Lets cross fingers and toes and see what happens. I feel much better that you guys are here to help people like us idiots who don't have a clue.

[holt2000]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi mgfboy & elsa

The saga continues and we haven't got any further forward. The last thing we want to do is open a can of worms but my partner's credit report is showing the Natwest account as in default and two of the three credit reports still show ongoing missed payments!

After having the matter "passed to complaints" from the Shatwest recovery team we have heard nothing at all back. It was 11th March when we spoke to them and I think they have to respond within 5 days. The recovery person said he could not speak to my partner as she was divorced from her ex husband.

Upon starting out with this whole issue at beginning of March we wrote to Natwest asking for a Subject Access Request. We have heard back to say that they have no trace of my partner! We couldn't give them the account number as my partner doesn't know it but we did give them all the names & addresses.

The whole issue now really is how to get my partners credit report 'fixed' so that the default does not show as outstanding/ongoing. We do agree that the default is correct (although disagree that it was properly served - i.e. my partner knew nothing about it until trying to get credit) but it seems to be ongoing.

My partner wrote to all three credit reference agencies asking to be disassociated from her ex-husband. Only CallCredit has written back and they said no due to the Natwest account.

I looked up and eventually found a CCJ registered against my partner's ex-husband on a website called Trust Online. I can't see who the claimant was but the amount tallies with the Natwest Default. The CCJ is unsatisfied which I guess means my partner's ex hasn't settled the debt - i.e. he went bankrupt.

How can he get a CCJ and my partner appear to be left alone but with an ongoing ruined credit file.

I've tried going to citizens advice but they wanted me to go to another branch (the one for my partner's postcode) and to take along an authorisation letter - which isn't a problem. My partner works Monday to Friday. The correct branch of Citizens advice want my partner to ring them and make an appointment - first one being in three weeks time.

Someone suggested trying Community Legal Advice as their advice is free for those who can claim Legal Aid. Again, they want to speak to my partner and I'm not sure they are impartial and not one of the many companies trying to profit from our misfortune.

What do you wonderful people suggest we do?

Thanks

[Undercover Elsa]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi again Holt,

Seems your partner is deadlocked in that they won't remove the entries (which is quite correct if it's an accurate record), yet they can't identify her on their systems or come up with an account number, so presumably they'd struggle to enforce this against her. Without the SAR info she can't even prove whether the date they put on the default is correct. Bizarre!

I'll ask Never-in-Doubt our forum administrator to look in on your thread, he's brilliant at CRA stuff. If there is a way forward he'll find it.

Elsa x

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi & Welcome to AAD

Ok, this is a nightmare, but it doesn't help the way you've went about things. Not to worry, it's about moving forwards not worrying about the past.

Let me explain a few facts for you, that will get you thinking straight;

1. A CCJ on a joint account would generally mean both parties receive an N1 claim form. That said, if your Mrs moved and they traced the ex, there's nothing guaranteeing they didn't CCJ him but not your Mrs or that he got a CCJ with your Mrs as judgment in default (ie if they sent it to old address and you never responded, they get default judgment) so it's hard to establish the CCJ thing. Easy to see if the Mrs has one, here ---> CCJs, court orders & fines - Search yourself and others - Trust Online

Also, if she knows the ex's details she could get a report on him too....

2. If the current account was a joint account then sadly the default entry will most likely remain, however after 3 years it should have little bearing but I note you state that two of the CRA's are still showing it as current - that's the first thing we can help with, ie get it retrospectively backdated to the correct default date which assuming it was in 2009, would mean you won't get declined for general stuff (only a mortgage) so the chances are, the fact it's not defaulted on two CRA's would suggest she is in debt hence the recent rejection - easy to sort that out (more later).

3. A default entry can only be recorded once for each account (as it can only default, once!). Thus you state the default was in 2009 - great - when the bank deal with the SAR then you'll see if it was executed properly, point is we can also look to stop her having to repay this

4. Never ring a bank collection dept and/or a DCA - they are scum and trained to ask for cash, not be nice. You've found this out the hard way so expect a barrage of abuse calls and letters - worst thing you did was phone them, second worst thing was to give them your number! Deal in writing, always deal in writing only.

Ok, so now we're clear on the above, lets look at resolutions. Can you recall;

- What was the approximate balance as at the time they split - ie the approximate overdraft? For example if the limit was a grand, they'd swing for a £5k judgment. That said, it also helps us look at forcing the blame back onto the bank and it might generate a reaction to remove the default - lets see on this, nothing is promised or guaranteed.

So, moving forward - I think we can look at sorting something to the bank to get the SAR dealt with - after this we could then go back with a complaint and try and force their hand at removing the default and/or seeing if they'll look upon this favourably by way of the facts and shitty circumstances - long shot but always worth a go - ordinarily (see last few paragraphs though). Then we'd need to look at getting the credit records updated, however, there will be links to the ex and they cannot be disassociated if the account is still in existence and within 6 years from the link being cancelled.

I'll elaborate; lets say you open a joint account and settle it in 2005 and then split with that person. If you notify the CRA that you've split, the link would remain as normal, showing the last 6 years history so by 2011 it'd be gone from your report because it is a clear 6 years from date the link broke upon account closure. However, lets presume that you never actually settled, there was a grand left outstanding. That changes everything. The moment you try and disassociate the CRA's will update the record that you're separate however as there is still a balance owing, you cannot break that link that originally associated you, because the bank can come after either of you and you're both liable for the debt and thus the link is in fact genuine, whether you're together or not. So in this case the CRA would accept the disassociation in 2005 however as there is still a balance owing, the link for THAT account will remain until paid off. Hence, you find yourself in this situation, the link will remain in place for 6 years AFTER the account is settled. Point is, that link to the current account will stay now, nothing you can do cos they cannot break it until the account is settled and closed by the bank itself. Although they will not be associated with any other accounts - the fact is that one live account WILL have an impact as it will link to the now BR Credit File hence increasing your Mrs risk.

See where I'm going with this now..?

So, really looking at the options and the likelihood of success in my experience I would seriously consider sitting things out and just not applying for JOINT products for the time being, let things be and if you need credit, do it in your sole name.

The hassle of arguing with CRA's, the bank and the FOS is a lot for the sake of a £5k debt that was, in all intent and purposes, forgotten about. Imagine if they now come after her for the £5k...?

I think you could create a mini-argument and get a wee bit of compo but by no means would you get what you NEED (to allow her to get credit) which is full disassociation, removal of adverse entries, debt write-off and the whole thing washed under the carpet. So what would I do? Forget it and move on. Really, you don't have any strong fight and the best thing here would be to move on, leave it a year or two and see what happens. The link will break if the ex did go BR and after 6 years (statute barred) so it's not all gloom, just 3 years of staying off the radar.

That's my opinion and what I would do, for the record I had 27 defaults last year and opened several HBOS current accounts and a couple of credit cards, no probs. Reason? All my defaults were 3+ years old (as explained above) - so once that link is gone, between the Mrs and her ex, then you'll not have long to wait. Thing is though, if it goes statute barred before the link goes then although the link will be broken at that point, the history of the account would remain for a further 6 years.

[Never-In-Doubt]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

p.s. I know that my post will probably confuse you so ask questions freely, don't be shy....

If you REALLY want us to try and help, it will most likely be a waste if time based in the reasons above. But that said we will help if its what you really want to pursue; although it'd be pretty daft and wasted effort.

[holt2000]

Re: Help with Natwest Default Notice

Hi Never-In-Doubt

Many thanks for posting such a detailed reply.

I note with concern your comments that I have gone about things the wrong way as this is the last thing I want to do. I do however agree that I have no idea what I am doing and we possibly have a lot to loose here - i.e. £5k.

Our gripe really is that they never contacted my partner to explain they were going to put the default there. We didn;t even know what one was let alone know that she had one. As her replationship with, and divorce from, her ex-husband was not harmoneous, she doesn't speak to him.

She can't remember if she made an arrangement with Natwest or just with Nationwide to pay off the debt. Her ex-husband told her she should stop paying Natwest as he had taken a CCJ for the debt. We have been online and confirmed this already using the site you mentioned. The CCJ is registered at the address he moved to following the marriage breakdown.

I totally get the fact that it is pointless chasing Natwest as we agree there is money owing and we don't want the bank chasing my partner. When she did speak to them, she was told the debt was in the process of being written off and the Recovery department didn't seem interested in speaking to her/persuing things - they didn't even ask for her new address.

As my partner's ex-husband has taken the CCJ and then declared himself bankrupt, he is fine in 6 years and can start again. My partner's 3 credit reports appear to show the account as in default but two of the CRA's have ongoing monthly entries.

Will the account drop off my partner's report 6 years after the default even if the monthly entries are ongoing?

I can send you copies of the reports privately if this might help?

At the end of the day, we are only really trying to ensure that after 6 years, things drop off her credit file. Your advice to keep our heads down is sound advice and is what we will do but we just want to make sure it goes away after 6 years.